Re: ALSO - anything better?

From	"Ed" <invalid@nospam.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: ALSO - anything better?
Date	2012-08-14 19:25 +1000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<k0d5dl$5v0$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
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Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 8/13/12 9:18 PM, Ed wrote:
> > Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> >> ...
> >> Many search orders are necessary if you're using them in an OOP
> >> implementation. Eight are necessary for a cross-compiler. Beyond that,
> >> it's really up to you and your programming style.
> >
> > Apparently LMI cross-compiled with *three* (context current forth).
> > The commercial Nautilus cross-compiler was, I believe, fig-Forth
> > which had a similar limited search order.
>
> CONTEXT and CURRENT aren't search orders, they're roles.
> ...

These are wordlists and the order in which I listed them is what LMI
searches.  I can't remember if Fig searched CURRENT as it used
chained wordlists - but the search always ended with FORTH.

> Cross & meta compilers at FORTH, Inc. add:
>
> HOST -- the host system's FORTH plus some added target compiling words;
> COMPILER -- words executed inside target colon definitions, equivalent
>     to IMMEDIATE words in a resident system;
> INTERPRETER -- words executed on the host to build target definitions,
>     such as : CREATE CONSTANT etc.
> TARGET -- words to be executed only on the target system.
> (ASSEMBLER) -- the target system's assembler.
>
> It's actually a little more complicated than that, but not much.

Surely these are just wordlists?  What's under consideration is the
mechanism by which they're searched.

> > Whether one searches by stacking vocabs, or explicitly executing
> > them as required, the result should be the same.  No?
> >
> > Stacking vocabs has the same issue as too many items on the
> > data stack - it's difficult to keep track.  And then there's the
> > support words to save/restore search order etc.
>
> In practice, it isn't that difficult.

I prefer something easier particularly if it can be implemented cheaper.

> > If the only drawback of LMI's method is that it requires extra
> > typing, it may be a small price to pay.  Implementation is simpler
> > than ANS and saving/restoring search can be as easy as
> > CONTEXT 2@  ... CONTEXT 2!
>
> Well, a lot of people found it inadequate. I haven't looked at it, but
> Ray Duncan was around when this part of Forth94 was defined, and he
> didn't have any trouble with it as I recall.

The ANS Rationale section mentions a member or vendor who
stated they would refuse to implement ANS-Forth if ONLY ALSO
were mandated.  I assumed that person to be Ray.

Thread

16.6.2.0715 ALSO Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-31 05:33 -0700
  Re: 16.6.2.0715 ALSO anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-31 14:43 +0000
    Re: 16.6.2.0715 ALSO Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-31 08:08 -0700
      Re: 16.6.2.0715 ALSO "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2012-07-31 11:35 -0400
  Re: 16.6.2.0715 ALSO Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-31 11:03 -0500
  ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-08 16:28 +1000
    Re: ALSO - anything better? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-08 01:22 -0700
      Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-08 10:33 +0000
      Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-08 03:52 -0700
        Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-11 22:13 +1000
          Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-11 12:15 +0000
            Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-13 21:22 +1000
              Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-13 04:44 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-14 18:46 +1000
              Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-13 10:03 -0500
          Re: ALSO - anything better? Spam@ControlQ.com - 2012-08-11 11:31 -0400
            Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-11 16:01 +0000
              Re: ALSO - anything better? Spam@ControlQ.com - 2012-08-12 16:02 -0400
            Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-11 11:37 -0500
          Re: ALSO - anything better? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-08-11 08:04 -1000
            Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-12 13:26 +1000
              Re: ALSO - anything better? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-08-11 21:55 -1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-14 17:18 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-08-13 21:53 -1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-14 19:25 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-14 19:40 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-15 12:57 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-15 10:09 -0500
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-15 15:12 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-15 10:21 -0500
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-15 16:26 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-15 12:08 -0500
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-15 17:38 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-15 13:10 -0500
                Re: ALSO - anything better? mhx@iae.nl - 2012-08-15 13:49 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-16 12:34 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-08-16 20:13 +0200
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-17 14:07 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-16 14:08 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-16 02:30 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-16 11:51 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-18 03:09 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-17 17:13 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-19 14:13 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-19 09:57 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-08-16 10:28 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-16 12:38 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-16 11:07 -0500
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-17 22:12 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-16 12:45 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-18 03:14 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-17 17:31 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-17 17:14 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-08-18 10:16 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2012-08-18 15:41 -0400
              Re: ALSO - anything better? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-08-15 12:14 -0700

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