Re: ALSO - anything better?

From	"Ed" <invalid@nospam.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: ALSO - anything better?
Date	2012-08-12 13:26 +1000
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<k077jg$tp6$1@speranza.aioe.org> (permalink)
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Elizabeth D. Rather wrote:
> On 8/11/12 2:13 AM, Ed wrote:
> > ...
> > I want to know whether these things are necessary.  The underlying
> > premise of ANS' ONLY ALSO and associated tools is that Forth
> > *requires* complicated search orders to get a job done.  Does it?
> > Apparently LMI didn't feel it did.
> >
> > I don't have the background to give a definitive answer.  If it boils
> > down to a choice between ANS compliance and simplicity then
> > I want to know.
>
> No, of course they aren't necessary. This is an optional wordset.
> Historically, Forthers have found wordlists useful for namespace
> management and the secondary benefit of shortening searches and hence
> speeding up compiles, but if that isn't important to you, don't use it.

I use search orders.  The question is how complex do they practically
need to be.

> There have been several approaches to namespace management over the
> years, starting in 1971 when Chuck's systems at NRAO needed to
> distinguish I (loop counter) from I (register name in assembler) from I
> (insert command in editor) and related conflicts. Bill Ragsdale
> introduced the ONLY/ALSO scheme in the early 80's. FORTH, Inc. used a
> simpler scheme that supported up to 8 wordlists, until the adoption of
> Forth94 when the TC adopted a much improved ONLY/ALSO scheme.
>
> Programmers' styles in this regard differ a lot. FORTH, Inc. was
> perfectly happy with 8 wordlists, and rarely used more than 4 except in
> cross- or meta-compilers, but the Forth94 TC heard from people who used
> "hundreds", and since Forth94 they have become popular mechanisms for
> implementing OOPs. And in SwiftForth, with over 3,000 words as booted,
> they are very helpful.

So from your experience lengthy search orders are not necessary (?)
That's not too different a position from LMI which managed with three.

Interesting!

Thread

16.6.2.0715 ALSO Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-31 05:33 -0700
  Re: 16.6.2.0715 ALSO anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-31 14:43 +0000
    Re: 16.6.2.0715 ALSO Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-07-31 08:08 -0700
      Re: 16.6.2.0715 ALSO "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2012-07-31 11:35 -0400
  Re: 16.6.2.0715 ALSO Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-31 11:03 -0500
  ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-08 16:28 +1000
    Re: ALSO - anything better? Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-08-08 01:22 -0700
      Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-08 10:33 +0000
      Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-08 03:52 -0700
        Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-11 22:13 +1000
          Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-11 12:15 +0000
            Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-13 21:22 +1000
              Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-13 04:44 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-14 18:46 +1000
              Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-13 10:03 -0500
          Re: ALSO - anything better? Spam@ControlQ.com - 2012-08-11 11:31 -0400
            Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-11 16:01 +0000
              Re: ALSO - anything better? Spam@ControlQ.com - 2012-08-12 16:02 -0400
            Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-11 11:37 -0500
          Re: ALSO - anything better? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-08-11 08:04 -1000
            Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-12 13:26 +1000
              Re: ALSO - anything better? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-08-11 21:55 -1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-14 17:18 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2012-08-13 21:53 -1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-14 19:25 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-14 19:40 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-15 12:57 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-15 10:09 -0500
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-15 15:12 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-15 10:21 -0500
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-15 16:26 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-15 12:08 -0500
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-15 17:38 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-15 13:10 -0500
                Re: ALSO - anything better? mhx@iae.nl - 2012-08-15 13:49 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-16 12:34 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-08-16 20:13 +0200
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-17 14:07 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-16 14:08 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-16 02:30 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-16 11:51 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-18 03:09 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-17 17:13 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-19 14:13 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-19 09:57 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? stephenXXX@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2012-08-16 10:28 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-16 12:38 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-08-16 11:07 -0500
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-17 22:12 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-16 12:45 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "Ed" <invalid@nospam.com> - 2012-08-18 03:14 +1000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-08-17 17:31 +0000
                Re: ALSO - anything better? Alex McDonald <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2012-08-17 17:14 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-08-18 10:16 -0700
                Re: ALSO - anything better? "David N. Williams" <williams@umich.edu> - 2012-08-18 15:41 -0400
              Re: ALSO - anything better? BruceMcF <agila61@netscape.net> - 2012-08-15 12:14 -0700

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