Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent

From	Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.forth
Subject	Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent
Date	2012-07-30 00:50 +0200
Organization	1&1 Internet AG
Message-ID	<jv4enm$sau$1@online.de> (permalink)
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Doug Hoffman wrote:
> I believe that using objects without the bureaucracy of declaring
> interfaces and having to remember which part of which class hierarchy
> I'm in to be a simpler and more useful approach.  One should be able
> to let the object system figure all of this stuff out.

In BerndOOF, I declare an object pointer instance variable somewhat like

widget ptr button
combined ptr box
display ptr dpy

All these three instance variables know in which part of the class 
hierarchy the objects bound to them are in.

The syntax for a duck type binding pointer would probably be

ptr foo

without mentioning any class.

I don't see declaring interfaces as buerocratic.  The interface is the 
visible part of a class, it is the part which needs documentation (stack 
effect is usually common for all implementations of the same method, and 
also the "what it is for" is documented in the interface).  Often 
enough, the base class is abstract, i.e. it does not actually implement 
the methods it declares.  In this case, it's not possible to do without 
declaration.

However, I see your point, that there are cases where you simply like to 
have m: <selector> which both declares and implements a selector - it's 
shorter, and you don't have to scroll around in your file.

> Do you have a simple example of multiple inheritance in BerndOOF?

No, BerndOOF can't do the things I've just described.  It can do single 
inheritance and implement arbitrary interfaces (an interface is 
something like a class without instance variables).

Multiple inheritance is not very flexible, because you declare exactly 
which classes you want to merge.  I don't find much use for this.  I 
usually stick objects together by object pointers, i.e. has-a 
relationships, not is-a relationships.  Example: Every MINOS widget has 
an actor, an object which handles input (key strokes, mouse clicks).  
There are a number of actors, and you can combine them quite liberal 
with widgets - not every actor makes sense for every widget, though.

A meta object protocol should allow people to implement multiple 
inheritance, of course.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself"
http://bernd-paysan.de/

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Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-20 11:15 -0400
  Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-20 20:18 +0200
    Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-20 16:27 -0400
      Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-21 00:21 +0200
        Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-20 19:49 -0400
          Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-21 15:42 +0200
            Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-23 21:02 -0400
            Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-23 21:31 -0400
        Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent mhx@iae.nl - 2012-07-21 01:18 -0700
          Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-21 11:59 +0000
          Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-21 14:43 +0200
            Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-21 19:36 +0000
              Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-21 21:41 +0200
                Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-22 14:13 +0000
            Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent mhx@iae.nl (Marcel Hendrix) - 2012-07-22 09:11 +0200
        Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-23 15:34 +0000
          Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-23 20:05 +0200
            Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-25 12:52 +0000
              Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-25 23:21 +0200
                Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-26 14:16 +0000
                Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-27 23:18 +0200
                Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2012-07-27 16:13 -0700
                Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2012-07-28 08:21 -0500
                Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-29 01:07 +0200
                Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-29 07:47 -0400
                Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-30 00:50 +0200
        Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-23 21:10 -0400
          Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-24 13:38 +0200
            Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-25 13:58 +0000
              Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-25 23:22 +0200
                objects (was: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2012-07-26 14:49 +0000
            Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 04:30 -0400
            Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-26 04:48 -0400
              Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2012-07-27 23:31 +0200
                Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-30 04:40 -0400
    Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2012-07-21 10:57 +0000
      Re: RfD: Make ENVIRONMENT? obsolescent Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2012-07-23 21:20 -0400

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