Groups | Search | Server Info | Login | Register

Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #32505

Re: good post on LinkedIn

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

Show key headers only | View raw

On 1/02/2026 12:33 am, Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester wrote:
> Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
> |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
> |"> N.B. Bill Sloman misused "learned" instead of "learnt".         |
> |                                                                   |
> |It's not a misuse, merely a regional variant."                     |
> |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
> 
> Dear Doctor Sloman,
> 
> A use of "learned" instead of "learnt" is a regional misuse.

A language is defined by what people say. I was brought up speaking 
English in Australia, and worked in England for 22 years, and in the 
Netherlands for 19 years. My wife was a psycholinguist, and I do know 
about regional variation. Anybody who labels regional variants as 
regional misuse is simply ignorant.

> |--------------------------------------------------------|
> |"Many Dutch kids learn French[. . .] from an early age."|
> |--------------------------------------------------------|
> 
> I used to be employed in the Netherlands by an employer whose
> languages are French and English. The Anglophones who used to be
> employed by this then employer then vastly outnumber the Francophones
> who used to be employed by this employer then.

And I was employed in the Netherlands - in Venlo - by Haffmans BV, where 
I talked Dutch unless I needed technical vocabulary, when I tended to 
switch to English. German was used from time to time, and I could mostly 
follow it
> 
> A then Anglophone neigbour used to persecute a then workmate who
> natively speaks French and who at that time used to work in French and
> English, by repeatedly saying to him in English (not French) that he
> must speak Dutch.

My biggest problem with learning Dutch was people who wanted to practice 
their English on me.

> A friend of Belgian nationality told me that persons of Dutch
> nationality say things to her like "Wow! You can speak French!"
> 
> I detected no-one in the Netherlands using French when I used to reside
> there, except for coworkers.

I got taught French in school in Tasmania - not all that well. I was 
good enough to let me read the Nouveau Traite de Chemie Minerale, which 
I needed to be able to do as a chemist. My German was a bit better, but 
definitely not fluent.

> All then employees then in this section of this then employer are
> Anglophones. A majority (55%) are Francophones, an unusually high
> proportion. This then chief is natively a Francophone. English is this
> project's language.
> 
> A Dutch then company (before it went bust) on this project tried to
> apply for money to a French centre for an unrelated project. This
> Dutch ex-company's ex-chiefs are of Dutch nationality. They wanted to
> know if a tender must show a proposed price including tax or excluding
> tax. So they telephoned this French centre to ask. They did try
> asking in broken French, but they rapidly reverted to English while
> they frantically reached for their French dictionary to find a French
> word for tax. Given this lack of preparation and given this
> anti-engineering belief, this ex-company deservedly went bust.

When I was working in England, several of the companies I worked for had 
dealings with the their French equivalents, and I spent about six months 
spending my working week in Paris with a small team of other engineers, 
flying back to England every weekend. I knew enough French to know that 
the first translation of an operating manual we had been given was total 
rubbish, but we'd co-opted a French engineer who normally lived and 
worked in Bristol, and he cleaned it up.
> 
> |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
> |"Many Dutch kids learn [. . .] German [. . .] from an early age."|
> |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
> 
> I bought German magazines from a person of Dutch nationality who used
> to be raised in the Netherlands near the German border. He used to buy
> them by short travels into Germmany. He did not have a good grasp of
> German when I bought them, so he declined to use German.

The Plattdeutch spoken just across the border from the Netherlands is 
very close to Dutch.

> |----------------------------------------------------------|
> |"Many Dutch kids learn [. . .] English from an early age."|
> |----------------------------------------------------------|
> 
> Yes. "Langenscheidt Expresskurs Niederländisch" alleges that persons
> who speak Dutch are less good at English than they believe. I do not
> detect so.

https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steenkolenengels

is famous in the Netherlands. I never ran into an actual example in my 
19 years in the country.
> 
> |---------------------------------------------------------|
> |"Lots of Belgians are raised as French/Dutch bilinguals."|
> |---------------------------------------------------------|
> 
> Of course. "Wow! You can speak French!" said an aforementioned friend
> of Belgian nationality acting like persons of Dutch
> nationality. "Yeah. [She can speak ]A little[ French]." said she
> herself as a response to downplay these amazements.
> (S. HTTP://Gloucester.Insomnia247.NL/ fuer Kontaktdaten!)

-- 
Bill Sloman, Sydney

Back to comp.arch.embedded | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar

Thread

good post on LinkedIn Niocláisín Cóilín de Ghlostéir <Master_Fontaine_is_dishonest@Strand_in_London.Gov.UK> - 2025-02-22 21:12 +0100
  Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <Spamassassin@irrt.De> - 2025-08-29 16:16 +0200
    Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-01 18:52 +0100
      Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-02 01:40 +0000
        Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-29 14:26 +0000
          Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 09:04 -0800
            Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-29 17:57 +0000
              Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 10:59 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-30 00:48 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-29 17:01 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-30 01:28 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 15:14 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 11:52 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 16:05 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 12:34 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-31 07:29 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-01 20:59 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-02-01 03:06 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-02 00:17 +1100
                Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-01-31 23:21 +0000
                Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-31 16:22 -0800
                Re: Excel and accountants, good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-02-01 02:13 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 03:56 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 15:23 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 14:36 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-01 21:31 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-30 14:59 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) - 2026-01-30 10:15 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-01-31 00:06 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de> - 2026-01-30 15:06 +0100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 11:55 -0800
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 13:33 +0000
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-01 01:31 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 19:16 +0000
                Re: history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-01-31 23:10 +0000
                Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 23:25 +0000
                Re: Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-02-01 02:43 +0000
                Re: Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn OrangeFish <OrangeFish@invalid.invalid> - 2026-02-01 18:00 -0500
                Re: Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-02-18 14:56 +0000
                Re: Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-02-18 20:32 +0000
                Re: Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-02-18 23:20 +0000
                Re: old new postings Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-02-19 02:46 +0000
                Re: old new postings Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-02-19 11:33 +0000
                Re: Sorry re history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2026-02-19 22:28 -0500
                Re: history of Fortran, good post on LinkedIn albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl - 2026-02-01 22:11 +0100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> - 2026-02-01 21:36 +1100
                Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 14:26 +0000
            Re: good post on LinkedIn wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> - 2026-01-30 11:27 -0800
              Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-30 18:54 -0800
          Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 03:40 +0000
            Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 15:20 +0000
              Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-01-31 17:13 +0000
            Re: good post on LinkedIn john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> - 2026-01-31 07:55 -0800
            Re: good post on LinkedIn Nioclás Pól Caileán de Ghloucester <thanks-to@Taf.com> - 2026-02-16 13:52 +0000

csiph-web