Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just paranoid?

From	Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.security
Subject	Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just paranoid?
Date	2019-08-23 21:00 +0200
Message-ID	<yymWZ-78w-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <yvvk5-3bf-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <yvPVv-7zt-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <yw3vs-7zN-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <yw4Uy-97-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <yycbg-wI-5@gated-at.bofh.it>
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The key question about it is how the archive keys are handled. I believe 
that keeping such a key offline would be a whole lot of work. It would 
perhaps also help to have it on a gpg-Smartcard.

Am 23.08.19 um 09:10 schrieb Rebecca N. Palmer:
> On 17/08/2019 12:18, Elmar Stellnberger wrote:
>> to be safe the key handling policy needs to be offline enforced
>
> There have been various attempts to encourage / simplify the use of 
> offline keys, but it isn't currently required in Debian, and some of 
> them only suggest keeping the master key (not the signing subkey, 
> which is enough to upload packages) offline.
>
> (non-trust warning: these are anyone-can-post areas)
> https://wiki.debian.org/GnuPG
> https://wiki.debian.org/OpenPGP/CleanRoomLiveEnvironment
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2017/08/threads.html#00011
>
> Also, firmware attacks can reach offline keys.
>
> However:
>
>> Intelligence can not spoof all downloads - there is always a certain 
>> percentage of downloads which get the original data; i.e. they only 
>> spoof the download if they know who is downloading.
>
> Individual developers' keys are used to protect uploads (from that 
> developer to the Debian archive), but downloads (from that archive to 
> a user, i.e. apt upgrade/install) are protected by a tree of hashes 
> signed by the archive's own key (see /var/lib/apt/lists).
>
> Hence, stealing an individual developer's key doesn't let an attacker 
> target specific people; it does let them upload as that developer, but 
> if they do, *everyone* sees their version of that package.  As you 
> note, this makes them more likely to be caught.
>
> To get a malware package to only a specific person, they would need 
> either a stolen *archive* key, or a bug/backdoor in apt that makes it 
> accept signatures it shouldn't.
>
> Proposal to keep a log of the official hashes, which would allow the 
> target of such an attack to prove it was an attack:
> https://debconf19.debconf.org/talks/66-software-transparency-improving-package-manager-security/ 
>
>

Thread

Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just paranoid? "Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com> - 2019-08-13 09:40 +0200
  Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just paranoid? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2019-08-14 07:10 +0200
  Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-14 17:40 +0200
    Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? "Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com> - 2019-08-15 23:20 +0200
      Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Davide Prina <davide.prina@gmail.com> - 2019-08-16 10:40 +0200
        Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? CMH <chouck@binghamton.edu> - 2019-08-16 14:20 +0200
        Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just paranoid? Andrei Grosu <andrei_grosu@fastmail.net> - 2019-08-16 19:20 +0200
        Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-16 19:20 +0200
      Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-16 19:10 +0200
      Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-16 19:30 +0200
      Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-16 21:20 +0200
        Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? "Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com> - 2019-08-17 11:50 +0200
          Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-17 13:20 +0200
            Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? "Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com> - 2019-08-23 09:30 +0200
              Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-23 21:00 +0200
                debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-15 17:20 +0100
                Verified Boot, Secure Boot, dm-verity, debcheckroot Patrick Schleizer <adrelanos@riseup.net> - 2019-11-16 14:00 +0100
                Re: Verified Boot, Secure Boot, dm-verity, debcheckroot Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-16 15:30 +0100
                Re: Verified Boot, Secure Boot, dm-verity, debcheckroot Sylvain Beucler <beuc@beuc.net> - 2019-11-16 15:40 +0100
                Re: Verified Boot, Secure Boot, dm-verity, debcheckroot Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-16 15:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Patrick Schleizer <adrelanos@riseup.net> - 2019-11-19 13:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-20 12:30 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Patrick Schleizer <adrelanos@riseup.net> - 2019-11-25 12:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-25 18:00 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-12-10 17:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-27 12:10 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2020-01-17 14:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-01-17 17:00 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-01-17 17:20 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-04 20:20 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-04 20:50 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-04 21:00 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-04 21:00 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-23 17:10 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-03-24 04:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-03-24 11:20 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-03-24 15:50 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-03-25 03:00 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-03-25 11:30 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-03-26 11:10 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released "vince@vheuser.com" <vince@vheuser.com> - 2020-04-01 20:10 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-04-02 02:00 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Lewis Yarema <lewisyarema91@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 11:20 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-02 17:00 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-03 13:40 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-02 16:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-04 09:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released William Gagnebé <william.gagnebe@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 12:20 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released l0f4r0@tuta.io - 2020-04-05 12:30 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-07 17:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released "Niall O'Reilly" <Niall.oReilly+lists@no8.be> - 2020-04-02 18:30 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 21:00 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-02 21:40 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-03 13:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 00:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-04 09:40 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2020-04-14 09:30 +0200
                arbitrary code execution on unformatted usb stick Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-25 15:40 +0200
                Re: arbitrary code execution on unformatted usb stick Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-25 15:50 +0200
                Re: arbitrary code execution on unformatted usb stick Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-05-02 17:00 +0200
                Re: arbitrary code execution on unformatted usb stick Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-05-02 17:10 +0200
                Fwd: Re: arbitrary code execution on unformatted usb stick estellnb@elstel.org - 2020-05-02 20:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-21 17:40 +0100
      Probably a false alarm Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the  act? Or am I just paranoid? "Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com> - 2019-08-24 18:50 +0200

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