Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just paranoid?

From	"Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.security
Subject	Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just paranoid?
Date	2019-08-23 09:30 +0200
Message-ID	<yycbg-wI-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <yv3xv-1cl-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <yvvk5-3bf-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <yvPVv-7zt-3@gated-at.bofh.it> <yw3vs-7zN-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <yw4Uy-97-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On 17/08/2019 12:18, Elmar Stellnberger wrote:
> to be safe the key 
> handling policy needs to be offline enforced

There have been various attempts to encourage / simplify the use of 
offline keys, but it isn't currently required in Debian, and some of 
them only suggest keeping the master key (not the signing subkey, which 
is enough to upload packages) offline.

(non-trust warning: these are anyone-can-post areas)
https://wiki.debian.org/GnuPG
https://wiki.debian.org/OpenPGP/CleanRoomLiveEnvironment
https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2017/08/threads.html#00011

Also, firmware attacks can reach offline keys.

However:

> Intelligence can not spoof all downloads - there is always a 
> certain percentage of downloads which get the original data; i.e. they 
> only spoof the download if they know who is downloading.

Individual developers' keys are used to protect uploads (from that 
developer to the Debian archive), but downloads (from that archive to a 
user, i.e. apt upgrade/install) are protected by a tree of hashes signed 
by the archive's own key (see /var/lib/apt/lists).

Hence, stealing an individual developer's key doesn't let an attacker 
target specific people; it does let them upload as that developer, but 
if they do, *everyone* sees their version of that package.  As you note, 
this makes them more likely to be caught.

To get a malware package to only a specific person, they would need 
either a stolen *archive* key, or a bug/backdoor in apt that makes it 
accept signatures it shouldn't.

Proposal to keep a log of the official hashes, which would allow the 
target of such an attack to prove it was an attack:
https://debconf19.debconf.org/talks/66-software-transparency-improving-package-manager-security/

Thread

Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just paranoid? "Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com> - 2019-08-13 09:40 +0200
  Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just paranoid? Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2019-08-14 07:10 +0200
  Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-14 17:40 +0200
    Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? "Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com> - 2019-08-15 23:20 +0200
      Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Davide Prina <davide.prina@gmail.com> - 2019-08-16 10:40 +0200
        Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? CMH <chouck@binghamton.edu> - 2019-08-16 14:20 +0200
        Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just paranoid? Andrei Grosu <andrei_grosu@fastmail.net> - 2019-08-16 19:20 +0200
        Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-16 19:20 +0200
      Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-16 19:10 +0200
      Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-16 19:30 +0200
      Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-16 21:20 +0200
        Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? "Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com> - 2019-08-17 11:50 +0200
          Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-17 13:20 +0200
            Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? "Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com> - 2019-08-23 09:30 +0200
              Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the act? Or am I just  paranoid? Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-08-23 21:00 +0200
                debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-15 17:20 +0100
                Verified Boot, Secure Boot, dm-verity, debcheckroot Patrick Schleizer <adrelanos@riseup.net> - 2019-11-16 14:00 +0100
                Re: Verified Boot, Secure Boot, dm-verity, debcheckroot Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-16 15:30 +0100
                Re: Verified Boot, Secure Boot, dm-verity, debcheckroot Sylvain Beucler <beuc@beuc.net> - 2019-11-16 15:40 +0100
                Re: Verified Boot, Secure Boot, dm-verity, debcheckroot Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-16 15:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Patrick Schleizer <adrelanos@riseup.net> - 2019-11-19 13:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-20 12:30 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Patrick Schleizer <adrelanos@riseup.net> - 2019-11-25 12:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-25 18:00 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-12-10 17:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2019-11-27 12:10 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Cindy Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2020-01-17 14:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-01-17 17:00 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-01-17 17:20 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-04 20:20 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-04 20:50 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-04 21:00 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-04 21:00 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-23 17:10 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-03-24 04:40 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-03-24 11:20 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-03-24 15:50 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-03-25 03:00 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-03-25 11:30 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-03-26 11:10 +0100
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released "vince@vheuser.com" <vince@vheuser.com> - 2020-04-01 20:10 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2020-04-02 02:00 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Lewis Yarema <lewisyarema91@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 11:20 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-02 17:00 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-03 13:40 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-02 16:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-04 09:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released William Gagnebé <william.gagnebe@gmail.com> - 2020-04-05 12:20 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released l0f4r0@tuta.io - 2020-04-05 12:30 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-07 17:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released "Niall O'Reilly" <Niall.oReilly+lists@no8.be> - 2020-04-02 18:30 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2020-04-02 21:00 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-02 21:40 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-03 13:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Lee <ler762@gmail.com> - 2020-04-04 00:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-04 09:40 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> - 2020-04-14 09:30 +0200
                arbitrary code execution on unformatted usb stick Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-25 15:40 +0200
                Re: arbitrary code execution on unformatted usb stick Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-04-25 15:50 +0200
                Re: arbitrary code execution on unformatted usb stick Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-05-02 17:00 +0200
                Re: arbitrary code execution on unformatted usb stick Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@elstel.org> - 2020-05-02 17:10 +0200
                Fwd: Re: arbitrary code execution on unformatted usb stick estellnb@elstel.org - 2020-05-02 20:50 +0200
                Re: debcheckroot v2.0 released Elmar Stellnberger <estellnb@gmail.com> - 2020-03-21 17:40 +0100
      Probably a false alarm Re: Have I caught a firmware attack in the  act? Or am I just paranoid? "Rebecca N. Palmer" <rebecca_palmer@zoho.com> - 2019-08-24 18:50 +0200

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