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Groups > linux.debian.devel > #91630
| From | Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | linux.debian.devel |
| Subject | Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices) |
| Date | 2019-05-31 08:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <y3Jd7-86G-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <y30zn-51E-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <y30J4-55o-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <y32hP-680-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <y32rv-6bw-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <y3I7n-7tM-5@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| Organization | linux.* mail to news gateway |
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Quoting Helmut Grohne (2019-05-31 07:17:07)
> On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 10:46:48AM +0200, Ansgar wrote:
> > On Wed, 2019-05-29 at 10:38 +0200, Raphael Hertzog wrote:
> > > Use the $300,000 on our bank accounts?
> >
> > I heard that this didn't work out well the last time ("dunc tank"),
> > though that was before the time I followed Debian development.
>
> I tend to concur with Raphael and Holger here. We've learned a few
> lessons, but that doesn't mean it cannot work. Indeed, I argue that
> "we" are paying developers now and you just didn't notice.
>
> Freexian was already mentioned. But the Linux Foundation is also
> paying people to make Debian reproducible. They're putting a similar
> amount of money into Debian.
>
> While Canonical maintains Ubuntu, they also pay a number of people who
> work on Debian directly and often times push their work into Debian
> first. I think we can honestly say that Debian wouldn't be where it is
> today without Canonical's support in a positive sense.
>
> A number of people report their activities on planet.d.o and some
> disclose which parts of their work are being paid. It turns out that
> some fraction of maintenance cost is performed on company time.
>
> What all of these have in common is that it's some external (to
> Debian) entity that decides which work ends up being done and that it
> is the business of that external entity to source the relevant money.
> The decision who is being paid is externalized from the Debian project
> and that is a quite strong difference to dunc tank.
>
> So if someone were to run a "Fix problems in Debian" company and were
> able to source money for doing so, I think that'd actually work. I'm
> less convinced that we can use Debian money for this in any way. But
> we can still tell people: If you want to improve X in Debian, consider
> donating to Y.
>
> In a sense, I'm arguing that this money business should be
> decentralized. And it already is.
There is a big difference between "Debian people get paid" and "Debian
pays Debian people". The former was always the case, the latter is
problematic.
Debian is a community (involving participants some doing business).
Debian is not a business, and should not become a business!
- Jonas
--
* Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
* Tlf.: +45 40843136 Website: http://dr.jones.dk/
[x] quote me freely [ ] ask before reusing [ ] keep private
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Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Sam Hartman <leader@debian.org> - 2019-05-25 19:30 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2019-05-26 11:40 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-26 12:10 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2019-05-26 19:30 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2019-05-27 06:30 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-27 08:50 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2019-05-29 08:00 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Alex Mestiashvili <amestia@rsh2.donotuse.de> - 2019-05-27 14:00 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-05-26 21:40 +0200
Difficult Packaging Practices Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-26 23:10 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices Jérémy Lal <kapouer@melix.org> - 2019-05-27 00:00 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-05-27 01:30 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-27 13:40 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2019-05-27 08:20 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2019-05-27 09:00 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2019-05-28 03:10 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2019-05-28 07:00 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2019-05-28 08:50 +0200
RE:Difficult Packaging Practices PICCA Frederic-Emmanuel <frederic-emmanuel.picca@synchrotron-soleil.fr> - 2019-05-28 09:10 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices Vincent Bernat <bernat@debian.org> - 2019-05-28 09:40 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices (OT) Thomas Dettbarn <dettus@dettus.net> - 2019-05-28 09:50 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices (OT) Alex Mestiashvili <amestia@rsh2.donotuse.de> - 2019-05-28 10:20 +0200
RE:Difficult Packaging Practices (OT) PICCA Frederic-Emmanuel <frederic-emmanuel.picca@synchrotron-soleil.fr> - 2019-05-28 10:50 +0200
Simplified Debianization Process (was: Re: Difficult Packaging Practices (OT) Mo Zhou <lumin@debian.org> - 2019-05-28 11:10 +0200
Re: Difficult Packaging Practices Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-27 14:00 +0200
Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices) Andreas Tille <andreas@an3as.eu> - 2019-05-29 08:50 +0200
Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices) Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2019-05-29 09:00 +0200
Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices) Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2019-05-29 10:40 +0200
Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices) Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> - 2019-05-29 10:50 +0200
Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices) Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2019-05-29 11:10 +0200
paying people for Debian work (Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices)) Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2019-05-30 23:40 +0200
Re: paying people for Debian work (Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices)) Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2019-06-03 03:30 +0200
Re: paying people for Debian work (Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices)) Raphael Hertzog <hertzog@debian.org> - 2019-06-03 11:50 +0200
Re: paying people for Debian work (Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices)) Joël Krähemann <jkraehemann@gmail.com> - 2019-06-06 20:50 +0200
Re: paying people for Debian work (Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-06-03 17:00 +0200
Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices) Helmut Grohne <helmut@subdivi.de> - 2019-05-31 07:20 +0200
Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices) Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2019-05-31 08:30 +0200
Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas (Was: Difficult Packaging Practices) Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> - 2019-05-31 17:40 +0200
Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas Mo Zhou <lumin@debian.org> - 2019-05-29 11:40 +0200
Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-29 13:50 +0200
Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-05-31 22:40 +0200
Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2019-05-31 23:10 +0200
Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Luca Filipozzi <lfilipoz@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 01:00 +0200
Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-06-01 01:00 +0200
Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money "G. Branden Robinson" <g.branden.robinson@gmail.com> - 2019-06-01 23:00 +0200
Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-02 00:20 +0200
Re: Realizing Good Ideas with Debian Money Ben Hutchings <ben@decadent.org.uk> - 2019-06-02 15:50 +0200
Re: Why do we take so long to realise good ideas Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2019-05-30 03:40 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Philip Hands <phil@hands.com> - 2019-05-26 23:20 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org> - 2019-05-30 20:50 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-27 14:00 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Scott Leggett <scott@sl.id.au> - 2019-05-27 14:50 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-05-27 20:00 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2019-05-27 07:10 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-27 14:00 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> - 2019-05-27 16:40 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2019-05-28 17:00 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Sam Hartman <hartmans@debian.org> - 2019-05-28 17:10 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Bill Allombert <ballombe@debian.org> - 2019-06-17 00:10 +0200
Re: Consensus Call: Do We Want to Require or Recommend DH; comments by 2019-06-16 Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org> - 2019-06-17 00:50 +0200
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