Groups > alt.comp.software.firefox > #12984

Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox

From	Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com>
Newsgroups	alt.comp.software.firefox
Subject	Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox
Date	2025-04-07 13:49 -0600
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<vt1a8b$i6ag$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<knrhku8v6e1h$.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <vsu0di$14tjg$1@dont-email.me> <11ipcjfuklbaq.dlg@v.nguard.lh> <vt0f9e$3napu$1@dont-email.me>

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On 4/7/2025 6:10 AM, Newyana2 wrote:
> On 4/6/2025 6:48 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
>> Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>>
>>> That "stupid Brave Rewards crap" is Brendan Eich's bright idea for the
>>> future of the Internet. He's stated that the Internet can only
>>> survive as a commercial entity. Shopping malls must replace town
>>> commons. It's a deeply cynical and foolish vision.
>>
>> Actually the Web would not survive without an influx of money.  When it
>> started, it was paid for by universities and taxes to the gov't.  What
>> you pay your ISP is just an entry fee.  Foolish to believe the Web will
>> or should ever be free.  That access is mostly free is what gets users
>> into feeling entitled, like kids whose parents pay for everything.
> 
>    Take a breath, V. You get going and end up arguing
> simply for the sake of winning an argument. Most of what
> you're saying is not making sense. The Internet is not
> funded by ads. It's certainly not funded by browser
> makers doubling as ad networks.
> 
>    I always hear the same arguments from Brave users:
> "They promise privacy and I just skip the ads part."
> Then Brave is going to go out of business. It's pure
> sleaze to start with. There's no way Brave works out
> well. Either the plan fails, or Brave becomes a commercial
> Internet filter, favoring websites that do deals with Eich.
> (OK, maybe there's a third possibility that Eich finds
> Jesus and invests his fortune in a clean browser. But don't
> hold your breath.)
> 
>     Your "not my problem" thinking is a big part of the
> problem online. Much of the Internet is a case of spoiled
> consumers. We try to grab free trinkets while holding
> onto our wallets. Companies like Google try to vacuum
> your wallet while you're busy grabbing the trinket. It's
> dishonesty on both sides. Brave is carrying on that
> tradition, giving you a lie to fool yourself with. Meanwhile,
> you're strenuously blocking all ads, pretending that Brave
> ads are an optional "feature".
> 
>     Either Brave will collapse or they'll vacuum your wallet.
> 
>    I still remember the first time I went online by myself.
> My neighbor had AOL and told me how to log in. I was
> intrigued. I logged in, then the first thing I saw was a
> popup that I coulddn't dismiss. "Do you want to order a
> new credit card?" | "Yes." | "Ask me later."
> 
>    Huh? That's not right! I gradually came to see that a
> lot of things on the Internet were not right. It was like
> ungoverned territory. Lots of people were contributing
> lots of very inspiring things. Lots of people were also just
> trying to vacuum wallets. The refusal of people
> to actually maintain honesty and integrity, and require
> it of others, is what allows the scamscape to happen.

I mostly agree with you saying the blame is two-way. In the Netscape 
days, users were very enthusiastic about the volunteer efforts but felt 
that there were too many unfriendly design decisions - recall that 
Netscape was like a TB and FF merge. The support was by donations.

I proposed, through the sponsored newsgroups, that we the users should 
be prepared to pay a small fee recurring for the use of the software to 
gain a voice in some of these feature decisions. The reaction to this 
proposal was so bad that I never could have imagined it: the ground fact 
was that the vast majority of users were "entitled spoiled brats" (ESB) 
and treated me as a nut case for making such a suggestion.

The ESB mentality is the same that seems to justify ripping off movies, 
software, and the like with Moral Turpitude.

Well the pendulum has been swing in the other direction for a while. A 
substantial portion of the software production community has decided to 
be paid for their products. There is nothing wrong with that. However 
ESB want to see themselves as the center of the universe and, frankly, 
that is just not going to work.

I am willing to pay reasonable fees for software applications that 
deliver wanted capabilities and protect my interests and privacy; most 
users are not. Some companies realized they could get paid and not be 
responsible for protection: M$ learned how to directly intrude in our 
life while collecting our money; Google learned how to make money on the 
back end; the Government has been no help - they sued M$ for 
monopolistic practices while DARPA simultaneously required that 
financial sections of submitted proposals be done in Excel!; and Adobe, 
well their just Adobe.
-- 
Jeff Barnett

Thread

Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-05 21:41 -0500
  Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Frank Miller <miller@posteo.ee> - 2025-04-06 05:20 +0200
    Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-06 04:32 -0500
      Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-06 04:36 -0500
  Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox John Diamond <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-04-06 04:24 +0100
    Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox occam <occam@nowhere.nix> - 2025-04-07 11:59 +0200
  Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-06 09:44 -0400
    Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-06 17:48 -0500
      Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-07 08:10 -0400
        Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-07 13:32 -0500
          Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-07 15:31 -0400
            Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-07 19:01 -0500
        Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2025-04-07 13:49 -0600
          Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox (PS) Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2025-04-07 13:52 -0600
          Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-07 17:29 -0400
            Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-07 19:57 -0500
              Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-07 22:25 -0400
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-07 22:54 -0500
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-04-08 06:58 +0100
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-08 08:37 -0400
            Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-04-08 06:55 +0100
              Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-08 08:47 -0400
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox fredl@invalid.com - 2025-04-08 14:50 -0500
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Schugo <schugo@schugo.de> - 2025-04-08 22:18 +0200
                Harder to keep loving Firefox News <dnews@triffid.co.uk> - 2025-04-09 10:20 +0100
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Schugo <schugo@schugo.de> - 2025-04-09 20:50 +0200
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-09 17:06 -0400
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-08 17:19 -0400
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Frank Miller <miller@posteo.ee> - 2025-04-08 23:55 +0200
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Newyana2 <newyana@invalid.nospam> - 2025-04-08 20:12 -0400
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-09 15:10 +0000
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2025-04-09 16:27 +0100
      Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Schugo <schugo@schugo.de> - 2025-04-07 19:27 +0200
      Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-04-11 11:50 -0700
        Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-11 16:45 -0500
          Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 09:29 -0700
            Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-04-13 17:15 +0000
              Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 12:36 -0700
              Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-13 16:54 -0500
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Nobody <jock@soccer.com> - 2025-04-13 16:05 -0700
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Winston <wbe@UBEBLOCK.psr.com.invalid> - 2025-04-14 03:11 -0400
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-14 06:21 -0500
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 08:03 -0700
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Nobody <jock@soccer.com> - 2025-04-16 08:17 -0700
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 08:49 -0700
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2025-04-16 16:43 +0100
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-04-17 09:59 -0700
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Mark Lloyd <not.email@all.invalid> - 2025-04-16 16:40 +0000
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-16 14:22 -0500
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Schugo <schugo@schugo.de> - 2025-04-16 21:42 +0200
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-16 19:33 -0500
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-04-16 07:59 -0700
              Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> - 2025-04-13 23:46 -0500
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2025-04-13 23:22 -0700
                Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> - 2025-04-14 08:07 +0100
              Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-14 17:40 +0000
    Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-09 02:17 -0500
  Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> - 2025-04-07 08:36 +0100
    Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-07 05:52 -0500
      Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox Dave Royal <dave@dave123royal.com> - 2025-04-07 13:05 +0100
        Re: Harder to keep loving Firefox VanguardLH <V@nguard.LH> - 2025-04-07 13:54 -0500

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