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Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control

From Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Newsgroups misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control
Date 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <vrv9hu$997i$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <xxxxxx-830806.00002125032025@news.supernews.com> <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad> <xxxxxx-775AD6.10354825032025@news.supernews.com> <3CzEP.483868$f81.134402@fx48.iad>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 2025-03-25 15:04:30 +0000, CrudeSausage said:
> On 2025-03-25 10:35, Johnny LaRue wrote:
>> In article <KBxEP.1621523$TBhc.513900@fx16.iad>,
>> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>>> On 2025-03-25 00:00, Johnny LaRue wrote:
>>>> In article <uorjtj1svg4iel6a1il22vrqbe394idovc@4ax.com>,
>>>> Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> A Mac mini would be $1400.  What I could build for that is
>>>>> unbelievable.  Getting macOS to me isn't so amazing, Linux does OK.  I
>>>>> think Apple is like M$ selling products to high-end users first.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, Apple costs more than Dell.   And BMWs cost more than Chevys.   And
>>>> steak costs more than chicken.
>>>> 
>>>> What is your point?
>>>> 
>>>> But what is the alleged "sacrifice of control"?   What does that even
>>>> mean?    My Macs are somehow "out of control"?
>>> 
>>> He's suggesting that in addition to Apple devices being more or less a
>>> walled garden (not really since you can install from outside the Apple
>>> Store even though the operating system makes that needlessly annoying
>>> for some applications like Betterbird), you lose control in that your
>>> hardware is abandoned after a number of years. On an x86-64 machine,
>>> this isn't a problem since you can go ahead and install Linux. However,
>>> once Apple decides not to supply you with MacOS anymore, you're stuck.
>>> You /CAN/ continue to use it, but the lack of updates might make its use
>>> a danger if you are connecting to the Internet.
>> 
>> Macs continue to run fine.
>> 
>> I have an 11 year old Mini that works fine.   I have this ancient Dual
>> G5 tower (20 years old) that runs fine.   I am using screen sharing (the
>> equivalent to remote desktop on Windows) from my M2 Macbook Pro to type
>> this message on the PPC G5 tower because I like MT-NewsWatcher.
>> 
>> I have an even older Dual G4 tower (23 years old, the wind tunnel box
>> AKA Mirror Drive Door) that also runs fine.
>> 
>> No "loss of control" here.   And if installing Linux means you are "in
>> control" then I would rather be "out of control".
> 
> On this old Mac, the only advantage I would get from using MacOS is 
> that the webcam would work without issue. It is possible to get it 
> working in Linux, but it will stop working one kernel update later. The 
> choice is therefore between using an outdated MacOS which becomes less 
> secure with every passing day

Old devices actually become *more* secure because most of the hackers 
and malware makers, like every other fool, insist on moving to the very 
latest shiny new toy on the block with the most users and "zero-day" 
holes, rather than wasting time on an old version of the OS with a 
dwindling user base.

Besides which, Macs are more secure out of the box to begin with. I've 
been using and supporting other people's Apple devices since the days 
of the Apple II and I have never ever seen any of them infected with 
malware. Windows boxes on the other hand are constantly infected with 
virus crap (although a little less these days), sometimes to the point 
that there is so much malware and anti-malware that they struggle to 
even boot - you just have to blink your eyes "wrong" and Windows gets 
virus infected.



> but properly supports the hardware or a secure Linux which doesn't 
> allow every component to work out of the box. I chose Linux since I 
> don't need to be seen through this camera anyway.

That is of course because Apple controls the software and the main 
hardware, so they know exactly what they have put in the OS to make it 
work. Windows, Linux, Andoird, etc. are separate from the hardware 
maker, so have to try to support numerous different combinations of 
varying hardware.

There's the largely true (again a little less so these days) old saying:
   "Mac has plug and play, Windows has plug and pray."   :-)

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Thread

Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-18 18:12 -0400
  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 09:14 -0700
    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-20 12:23 -0400
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 13:44 -0400
    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 13:43 -0400
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 19:50 +0000
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Mikey <Mikey.Smith@aol.invalid> - 2025-03-21 15:00 +0000
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-21 19:59 +0000
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 16:45 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:26 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 23:53 +0000
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 20:00 -0400
              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-21 20:27 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-22 00:45 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 19:57 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 21:49 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 22:29 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 16:29 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 19:59 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 20:14 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:29 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 01:59 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control chrisv <chrisv@nospam.invalid> - 2025-03-22 04:54 -0500
              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 09:22 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-22 19:16 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 14:26 -0700
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 17:58 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-20 15:52 -0700
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-20 20:48 -0400
              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:31 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-21 16:47 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 13:00 -0400
            Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 12:29 -0400
              Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 12:40 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-21 15:56 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-21 22:27 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 16:36 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 14:04 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 17:52 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-22 19:18 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 19:23 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 08:18 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 12:21 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:00 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:06 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:17 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:22 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:35 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 18:41 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:54 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:11 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 21:05 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:22 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 17:31 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-23 22:34 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 08:53 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 13:39 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 10:48 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 19:59 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 23:12 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:36 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:42 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 18:57 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2025-03-24 23:20 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:38 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:46 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 00:59 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:17 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 01:30 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:58 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:44 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:52 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:16 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:24 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:40 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:45 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:48 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:02 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:10 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:26 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-04-09 18:40 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-09 11:51 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-04-10 10:07 +1200
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-09 18:16 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-04-10 19:48 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:08 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:14 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-24 19:29 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:46 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:09 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-25 06:24 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 02:31 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 12:20 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:13 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 15:39 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 15:52 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:58 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:11 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 22:12 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-03-23 16:02 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:09 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 20:25 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 16:34 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:43 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-03-24 09:09 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> - 2025-03-24 20:10 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 18:33 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 14:51 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:06 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-23 15:26 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Adison Vohn Caterson <Adison@Caterson.invalid> - 2025-03-23 19:33 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:44 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:11 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:11 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 18:13 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:57 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:43 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:54 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:15 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:22 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:36 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 23:43 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 20:49 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:09 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:11 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:29 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Rudy Canoza <rc@j.kone.invalid> - 2025-03-25 02:32 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 02:41 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 18:27 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 16:55 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 20:08 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 17:10 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-04 20:21 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-04-04 23:11 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 02:50 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-05 16:06 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:17 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-04-05 20:42 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 07:42 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 08:07 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 15:44 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 12:46 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 15:59 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-04-06 13:11 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-04-07 08:57 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2025-04-05 15:49 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-04-05 16:16 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 01:26 +0000
                Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ πŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆJenπŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆ Dershmendenderer πŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸΆη¬›πŸŒˆπŸ’πŸŒ»πŸŒΊπŸŒΉπŸŒ»πŸ’πŸŒ·πŸŒΊπŸŒˆ <root@127.0.0.1>  - 2025-04-06 03:18 +0000
                Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 03:35 +0000
                Re: πŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆApple requires too much money and sacrifice of controlπŸ³οΈβ€πŸŒˆ vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-04-06 04:31 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-22 19:17 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 03:15 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-23 18:01 +1300
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-23 18:08 +1300
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-23 05:37 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:45 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-22 23:33 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 14:46 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 19:13 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:47 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-25 00:52 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 17:59 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 21:48 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:43 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-24 22:28 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 19:44 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 08:43 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:48 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 08:12 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 04:20 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 18:48 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 14:54 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-25 17:24 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 20:33 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-25 18:03 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 21:19 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 07:40 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-26 08:36 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-27 10:05 +1300
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 17:43 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-26 19:05 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:17 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 02:25 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control % <pursent100@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 19:49 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-03-27 03:30 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 11:57 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 20:15 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-26 16:18 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 07:45 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-27 08:41 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:20 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:44 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:20 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-27 18:26 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:53 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-27 22:42 -0700
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 01:45 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-28 07:50 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 02:08 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 22:16 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 12:06 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 18:11 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control pothead <pothead@snakebite.com> - 2025-03-28 00:43 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-27 21:18 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-28 08:26 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 14:58 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 15:13 -0400
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 02:09 +0000
                Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-21 20:33 -0400
  Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 00:00 -0400
    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:06 -0400
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-03-24 21:09 -0700
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 00:25 -0400
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 10:13 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 10:20 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 11:01 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-03-26 02:05 +0000
    Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 08:47 -0400
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Johnny LaRue <xxxxxx@yyyyyy.zzz> - 2025-03-25 10:35 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Joel <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 10:41 -0400
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2025-03-25 11:04 -0400
          Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300
        Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:16 +1300
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-03-25 18:53 +0000
      Re: Apple requires too much money and sacrifice of control Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-03-26 11:09 +1300

csiph-web