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Groups > comp.theory > #107838
| From | Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory, sci.logic |
| Subject | Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure |
| Date | 2024-06-25 23:32 -0400 |
| Organization | i2pn2 (i2pn.org) |
| Message-ID | <v5g24k$14bcm$10@i2pn2.org> (permalink) |
| References | (29 earlier) <v5fslr$1uc3o$1@dont-email.me> <v5fto2$14bcm$9@i2pn2.org> <v5fu06$1umhr$1@dont-email.me> <v5fvtf$14bcn$3@i2pn2.org> <v5g1nr$1v8bm$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 6/25/24 11:25 PM, olcott wrote: > On 6/25/2024 9:54 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >> On 6/25/24 10:21 PM, olcott wrote: >>> On 6/25/2024 9:17 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>> On 6/25/24 9:59 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>> On 6/25/2024 8:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>> On 6/25/24 9:02 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>> On 6/25/2024 6:04 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>> On 6/24/24 11:13 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 6/24/2024 9:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On 6/24/24 10:38 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On 6/24/2024 9:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/24/24 10:21 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/24/2024 9:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/24/24 9:55 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *We can get to that as soon as you reverse your lie* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *We can get to that as soon as you reverse your lie* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *We can get to that as soon as you reverse your lie* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You still haven't shown where I lied, on where you don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like what I say. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You said that D correctly simulated by H must >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have the behavior of the directly executed D(D). >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, the steps that H sees are IDENTIAL to the steps of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the directly executed D(D) until H stops its simulation, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT ONE DIFFERENCE. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Honest mistake or liar? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The directly executed D(D) has identical behavior to >>>>>>>>>>>>> D correctly simulated by H1 >>>>>>>>>>>>> *the call from D to H(D,D) returns* >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This is not the same behavior as >>>>>>>>>>>>> D correctly simulated by H >>>>>>>>>>>>> *the call from D to H(D,D) DOES NOT return* >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> And what instruction did H's simulation differ from the >>>>>>>>>>>> direct executions trace? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> D correctly simulated by H >>>>>>>>>>> *the call from D to H(D,D) DOES NOT return* >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Which isn't "Behavior of the input" >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The "not happening" of something that could have happened >>>>>>>>>> except that the processing was stoped is NOT behavior. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> D correctly simulated by H1 --- Identical to D(D) >>>>>>>>>>> *the call from D to H(D,D) returns* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Right, and it contains ALL of the behavior of the correct >>>>>>>>>> simulation of D by H, plus more. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> H doesn't see DIFFERENT behavior, just LESS, and that >>>>>>>>>> differnce isn't due to the input, but due to H. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *These are not the same behaviors* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> (Assuming unlimited memory) >>>>>>>>> When 1 to a googolplex of steps of D are correctly simulated by H >>>>>>>>> *the call from D to H(D,D) NEVER RETURNS* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Correction, 1 to a googleplex of steps if DIFFERENT Ds, each >>>>>>>> paired with a DIFFERENT H, when simulated by that H, the >>>>>>>> DIFFFERENT routines called by those DIFFERENT Ds to that >>>>>>>> DIFFERENT H(D,D) is never simulated to an end. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _P() >>>>>>> [000020e2] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>>>> [000020e3] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>>>> [000020e5] 51 push ecx ; housekeeping >>>>>>> [000020e6] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08] ; parameter >>>>>>> [000020e9] 50 push eax ; push parameter >>>>>>> [000020ea] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08] ; parameter >>>>>>> [000020ed] 51 push ecx ; push parameter >>>>>>> [000020ee] e82ff3ffff call 00001422 ; call H(P,P) >>>>>>> [000020f3] 83c408 add esp,+08 >>>>>>> [000020f6] 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax >>>>>>> [000020f9] 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 >>>>>>> [000020fd] 7402 jz 00002101 >>>>>>> [000020ff] ebfe jmp 000020ff >>>>>>> [00002101] 8b45fc mov eax,[ebp-04] >>>>>>> [00002104] 8be5 mov esp,ebp >>>>>>> [00002106] 5d pop ebp >>>>>>> [00002107] c3 ret >>>>>>> Size in bytes:(0038) [00002107] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The call from D to H(D,D) cannot possibly return when D >>>>>>> is correctly simulated by any H that can possibly exist. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Unless you say yes you are correct we cannot move on to >>>>>>> the next point. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> No, the call most definitinely DOES return, but that return is >>>>>> after the simulation ended. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Maybe the real problem is that you have insufficient technical >>>>> competence. >>>> >>>> Nope, that isn't the problem. I KNOW what I am talking about, as >>>> opposed to you who can't even write a simple Turing Machine. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Your problem is that, strictly, by your definition of "Correct >>>>>> Simulation", >>>>> >>>>> The semantics of the x86 language objectively proves that I am >>>>> correct. >>>>> Have you been faking your technical competence? >>>> >>>> Nope. >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Can you do better with this simpler example? >>>>> >>>>> _DDD() >>>>> [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >>>>> [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >>>>> [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD >>>>> [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call H0(DDD) >>>>> [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 >>>>> [00002182] 5d pop ebp >>>>> [00002183] c3 ret >>>>> Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] >>>>> >>>>> The call from DDD to H0(DDD) when DDD is correctly emulated >>>>> by H0 cannot possibly return. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> But the call will, just not in the simulation that your H0 does. >>>> >>> >>> OK so we are back to you being a freaking liar trying to get >>> away with contradicting the semantics of the x86 language. >>> >> >> How does that contradictthe semantics of the x86 languge? >> >> If H0 is a decider, it will ALWAYS return an answer in finite time > > H0 is not even a decider yet. When you leap ahead you > diverge from the point at hand. > THen it is allowed to be the impure function , so you r claim is proven false. You can't use double speak and claim you ment that, but not that H0 isn't a decider. So, your FAIL. And, by the definition of "Correct Simulation" per the STRICT x86 definition, it CAN'T be a decider, as it isn't allowed to "abort" since the actual x86 code doesn't abort.
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DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 08:40 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? (typo corrected) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 09:00 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 14:20 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 16:41 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 17:49 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 17:04 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 18:35 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 17:45 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 18:58 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 18:34 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 19:44 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 19:08 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 20:24 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:00 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 21:13 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:20 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 21:30 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:36 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:00 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:09 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:16 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:27 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:31 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:38 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:52 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 23:11 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 22:26 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 07:02 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 08:39 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:17 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 18:38 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:57 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 08:42 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:19 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 18:43 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:59 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 19:02 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 20:06 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 19:34 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 20:54 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:05 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:13 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:22 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:24 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure (typo) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:07 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure (typo) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:22 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:32 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:51 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:55 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:02 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:17 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:25 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:21 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:26 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:38 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:48 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:52 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 06:59 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 22:13 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 07:04 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 08:02 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 21:47 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 20:59 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 22:17 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 21:21 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 22:54 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 22:25 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 23:32 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 22:37 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 06:58 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 08:33 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:41 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 18:50 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:52 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 19:19 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 20:38 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 19:24 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 20:40 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 20:12 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 21:21 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:10 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 22:38 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:46 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 23:16 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 22:37 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 07:34 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 08:21 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 19:57 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 22:25 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-28 07:44 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 07:28 -0500
Re: Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-28 12:58 +0000
Re: Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 09:33 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-28 23:49 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 23:09 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-25 09:14 +0000
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:33 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:03 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:13 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:28 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-24 19:44 +0000
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 15:05 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:19 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 07:02 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 08:48 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:47 -0400
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