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Groups > comp.theory > #107826
| From | olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory, sci.logic |
| Subject | Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure |
| Date | 2024-06-25 20:59 -0500 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <v5fslr$1uc3o$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (29 earlier) <v5db62$10m6o$13@i2pn2.org> <v5dckm$1bteo$1@dont-email.me> <v5e87h$12a1a$2@i2pn2.org> <v5ef4n$1ihbr$1@dont-email.me> <v5frvi$14bcm$4@i2pn2.org> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 6/25/2024 8:47 PM, Richard Damon wrote: > On 6/25/24 9:02 AM, olcott wrote: >> On 6/25/2024 6:04 AM, Richard Damon wrote: >>> On 6/24/24 11:13 PM, olcott wrote: >>>> On 6/24/2024 9:48 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>> On 6/24/24 10:38 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>> On 6/24/2024 9:26 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>> On 6/24/24 10:21 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>> On 6/24/2024 9:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>> On 6/24/24 9:55 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *We can get to that as soon as you reverse your lie* >>>>>>>>>> *We can get to that as soon as you reverse your lie* >>>>>>>>>> *We can get to that as soon as you reverse your lie* >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You still haven't shown where I lied, on where you don't like >>>>>>>>> what I say. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You said that D correctly simulated by H must >>>>>>>>>> have the behavior of the directly executed D(D). >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Right, the steps that H sees are IDENTIAL to the steps of the >>>>>>>>> directly executed D(D) until H stops its simulation, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> NOT ONE DIFFERENCE. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Honest mistake or liar? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The directly executed D(D) has identical behavior to >>>>>>>> D correctly simulated by H1 >>>>>>>> *the call from D to H(D,D) returns* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is not the same behavior as >>>>>>>> D correctly simulated by H >>>>>>>> *the call from D to H(D,D) DOES NOT return* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And what instruction did H's simulation differ from the direct >>>>>>> executions trace? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> D correctly simulated by H >>>>>> *the call from D to H(D,D) DOES NOT return* >>>>> >>>>> Which isn't "Behavior of the input" >>>>> >>>>> The "not happening" of something that could have happened except >>>>> that the processing was stoped is NOT behavior. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> D correctly simulated by H1 --- Identical to D(D) >>>>>> *the call from D to H(D,D) returns* >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Right, and it contains ALL of the behavior of the correct >>>>> simulation of D by H, plus more. >>>>> >>>>> H doesn't see DIFFERENT behavior, just LESS, and that differnce >>>>> isn't due to the input, but due to H. >>>> >>>> *These are not the same behaviors* >>>> >>>> (Assuming unlimited memory) >>>> When 1 to a googolplex of steps of D are correctly simulated by H >>>> *the call from D to H(D,D) NEVER RETURNS* >>> >>> Correction, 1 to a googleplex of steps if DIFFERENT Ds, each paired >>> with a DIFFERENT H, when simulated by that H, the DIFFFERENT routines >>> called by those DIFFERENT Ds to that DIFFERENT H(D,D) is never >>> simulated to an end. >>> >> >> _P() >> [000020e2] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping >> [000020e3] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping >> [000020e5] 51 push ecx ; housekeeping >> [000020e6] 8b4508 mov eax,[ebp+08] ; parameter >> [000020e9] 50 push eax ; push parameter >> [000020ea] 8b4d08 mov ecx,[ebp+08] ; parameter >> [000020ed] 51 push ecx ; push parameter >> [000020ee] e82ff3ffff call 00001422 ; call H(P,P) >> [000020f3] 83c408 add esp,+08 >> [000020f6] 8945fc mov [ebp-04],eax >> [000020f9] 837dfc00 cmp dword [ebp-04],+00 >> [000020fd] 7402 jz 00002101 >> [000020ff] ebfe jmp 000020ff >> [00002101] 8b45fc mov eax,[ebp-04] >> [00002104] 8be5 mov esp,ebp >> [00002106] 5d pop ebp >> [00002107] c3 ret >> Size in bytes:(0038) [00002107] >> >> The call from D to H(D,D) cannot possibly return when D >> is correctly simulated by any H that can possibly exist. >> >> Unless you say yes you are correct we cannot move on to >> the next point. >> > > No, the call most definitinely DOES return, but that return is after the > simulation ended. > Maybe the real problem is that you have insufficient technical competence. > Your problem is that, strictly, by your definition of "Correct > Simulation", The semantics of the x86 language objectively proves that I am correct. Have you been faking your technical competence? Can you do better with this simpler example? _DDD() [00002172] 55 push ebp ; housekeeping [00002173] 8bec mov ebp,esp ; housekeeping [00002175] 6872210000 push 00002172 ; push DDD [0000217a] e853f4ffff call 000015d2 ; call H0(DDD) [0000217f] 83c404 add esp,+04 [00002182] 5d pop ebp [00002183] c3 ret Size in bytes:(0018) [00002183] The call from DDD to H0(DDD) when DDD is correctly emulated by H0 cannot possibly return. -- Copyright 2024 Olcott "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see." Arthur Schopenhauer
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DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 08:40 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? (typo corrected) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 09:00 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 14:20 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 16:41 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 17:49 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 17:04 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 18:35 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 17:45 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 18:58 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 18:34 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 19:44 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 19:08 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 20:24 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:00 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 21:13 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:20 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 21:30 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:36 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:00 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:09 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:16 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:27 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:31 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:38 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:52 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 23:11 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 22:26 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 07:02 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 08:39 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:17 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 18:38 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:57 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 08:42 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:19 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 18:43 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:59 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 19:02 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 20:06 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 19:34 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 20:54 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:05 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:13 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:22 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:24 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure (typo) olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:07 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure (typo) Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:22 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:32 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 21:51 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 20:55 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:02 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:17 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:25 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:21 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:26 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:38 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 22:48 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 21:52 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 06:59 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 22:13 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 07:04 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 08:02 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 21:47 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 20:59 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 22:17 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 21:21 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 22:54 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 22:25 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-25 23:32 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-25 22:37 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 06:58 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 08:33 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:41 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 18:50 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:52 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 19:19 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 20:38 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 19:24 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 20:40 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 20:12 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 21:21 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:10 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 22:38 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 21:46 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 23:16 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 22:37 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 07:34 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 08:21 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-27 19:57 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-27 22:25 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-28 07:44 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 07:28 -0500
Re: Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-28 12:58 +0000
Re: Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-28 09:33 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? -- Repeat until Closure Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-28 23:49 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 23:09 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-25 09:14 +0000
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 20:33 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:03 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-23 21:13 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-23 22:28 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? joes <noreply@example.com> - 2024-06-24 19:44 +0000
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-24 15:05 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-24 19:19 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 07:02 -0400
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2024-06-26 08:48 -0500
Re: DDD correctly emulated by H0 --- Why Lie? Richard Damon <richard@damon-family.org> - 2024-06-26 19:47 -0400
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