Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to yield() usage

From	Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de>
Newsgroups	linux.kernel
Subject	Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to yield() usage
Date	2017-04-06 03:10 +0200
Message-ID	<tt45X-1FN-3@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <tsFhf-2yy-13@gated-at.bofh.it> <tsJNT-5yF-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <tsLG1-6OS-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <tsMsp-7lZ-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <tt30e-NG-13@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On Wed, 2017-04-05 at 16:55 -0700, Cong Wang wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 11:12 PM, Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2017-04-04 at 22:25 -0700, Cong Wang wrote:
> > > On Tue, Apr 4, 2017 at 8:20 PM, Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> wrote:
> > > > -               while (some_qdisc_is_busy(dev))
> > > > -                       yield();
> > > > +               swait_event_timeout(swait,
> > > > !some_qdisc_is_busy(dev), 1);
> > > >  }
> > > 
> > > I don't see why this is an improvement even if I don't care about the
> > > hardcoded timeout for now... Why the scheduler can make a better
> > > decision with swait_event_timeout() than with cond_resched()?
> > 
> > Because sleeping gets you out of the way?  There is no other decision
> > the scheduler can make while a SCHED_FIFO task is trying to yield when
> > it is the one and only task at it's priority.  The scheduler is doing
> > exactly what it is supposed to do, problem is people calling yield()
> > tend to think it does something it does not do, which is why it is
> > decorated with "if you think you want yield(), think again"
> > 
> > Yes, yield semantics suck rocks, basically don't exist.  Hop in your
> > time machine and slap whoever you find claiming responsibility :)
> 
> I am not trying to defend for yield(), I am trying to understand when
> cond_resched() is not a right solution to replace yield() and when it is.
> For me, the dev_deactivate_many() case is, because I interpret
> "be nice" differently.

Yeah, I know you weren't defending it, just as I know that the net-fu
masters don't need that comment held close to their noses in order to
be able to read it.. waving it about wasn't for their benefit ;-)

	-Mike

Thread

net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to yield()  usage Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2017-04-02 06:30 +0200
  Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com> - 2017-04-05 00:40 +0200
    Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2017-04-05 05:30 +0200
      Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com> - 2017-04-05 07:30 +0200
        Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2017-04-05 08:20 +0200
          Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Cong Wang <xiyou.wangcong@gmail.com> - 2017-04-06 02:00 +0200
            Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2017-04-06 03:10 +0200
        Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2017-04-06 12:30 +0200
  Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Stephen Hemminger <stephen@networkplumber.org> - 2017-04-06 02:40 +0200
    Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Mike Galbraith <efault@gmx.de> - 2017-04-06 03:30 +0200
    Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2017-04-06 12:30 +0200
      Re: net/sched: latent livelock in dev_deactivate_many() due to  yield() usage Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2017-04-06 13:10 +0200

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