Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #156349

Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges?

Show all headers | View raw

In article <dfdb4eFipssU1@mid.individual.net>, 879 <879@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
>"Morten Reistad" <first@last.name.invalid> wrote in message 
>news:glv7mc-ee2.ln1@sambook.reistad.name...
>> In article <n6rhgm$g4f$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Dave Garland  <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote:
>>>On 1/9/2016 1:11 AM, 879 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Dave Garland" <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:n6q6ol$u3v$1@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>>>> Though my friend in Atlanta says everybody's got backup generators,
>>>>> because the outages there are so frequent, so YMMV.
>>>>
>>>> Weird that a first world country would put up with such an obscene
>>>> result.
>>>>
>>>> We don’t normally get one a year and they rarely last that long.
>>>
>>>The 'burbs are hilly and parts are thickly wooded, and the
>>>infrastructure is old. Mostly it's wind blowing branches (or trees)
>>>down that takes out lines, but there's a lot of trees, some of them
>>>old and decrepit. And kudzu. I don't expect they get outages downtown.
>>
>> This city vs suburbia vs countryside reliability comparison is
>> pretty much everywhere. Downtown has had three 1-2 hour power cuts
>> since Nixon resigned. But out here in outer suburbia we have them
>> every month or so,
>
>We don’t see anything like that in outer suburbia here.
>
>> with a longer one (up to 8 hours) every year or so.
>
>Its very rare to get them for anything like that long here.
>
>> I have wired the house with a 12V battery backed computer and essentials
>> power supply, have a wood fireplace and a small, 1kW petrol generator.
>
>I did get a petrol generator from a garage/yard sale for just $20
>but have never actually gotten around to even checking if it works.
>
>> As well as a partial gas stove.
>
>I do have the camping gas stove but have only ever used it
>the once due to a mains failure in the 50 years I have had it.
>
>> The batteries are good for around a
>> day, somewhat more if I shut down stuff, somewhat less if I drive lots
>> of lights from it.
>>
>> The upside is that the actual grid is pretty well thought out, they
>> just haven't got the funds to have automated switching everywhere for
>> the local supply, so they will have to send someone out to reroute
>> stuff if there are shorts on some local 21kV lines that blow out fuses.
>
>We have automatic reclosers on ours. The only time there needs
>to be any manual action is when one of the transformers is taken
>out, usually due to a lightning strike, or when one of the big poles
>which have the 11KV lines at the top of them is blown down like
>did happen not that long ago when a mini tornado when thru the
>town and took out a massive number of trees that took more than
>a month to get all the downed trees removed. No houses were lost.

We have got reclosers too, but they stay open if there are permanent
shorts or strong faults to earth. If this happens they need to re-patch
by isolating the shorted line; and this requires sending people out.
They can get to even the most remote stations within around 90 minutes, 
and this is pretty much the max duration of local faults. Population
centers (i.e. more than 20 houses) are located at the eyes of the
figure-8s and have at least two primary and one disaster path out.

They thought out the grid pretty well, it is 4 "figure-8" on top
of each other with supplies from two small hydropower stations and
the national grid in 3 places. The hydro stations can run it alone
in summer, but in winter we need at least one of the external
supplies. Pure outages (without permanent shorts) usually last
2-6 seconds, enough to have a computer reboot and one of the
fridges to forget its settings, but no worse than that. This is
done on 21 kV. Some of the lines, poles, platforms and transformer shacks
date from the 1930s, but everything was renewed and upgraded from
4kV to 21kV around 1990. Before that outages could last days.

There is a SPOF in the pole routing of the 50kV external feeds, 
which will be solved by having a 21kV sea cable installed next
summer to the next municipality, which will give both of them
emergency feeds even through winter. 

They are converting neighbourhoods slowly from 235TT to 400TN-S, 
to save copper and/or have longer local supply stretches. 
>
>> This happens when we have storms in the winter.
>> But it is normally fixed withon a few hours.
>
>> Whereas downtown they haven't had a single > 2seconds power cut
>> for nearly 15 years.
>
>New Zealand has has a couple, massive
>cable failure. We havent had any of those.
>
>Quite a bit of Brisbane was turned off for a while in the relatively
>recent massive floods, but that was deliberate turning off, not failure.
>
>> The last one was when a core tranformer blew up
>> due to lack of oil cooling in 2001. The 2 seconds are for
>> the automated relays to throw the load to a different supply.
>
>> This seems to be the story almost everywhere.
>
>No its not on your monthly failures in suburbia. 

Outer suburbia, almost rural. Well, agricultural in several places with
4 smaller population centers of 2-4000 people each. Located on a 
peninsula quite close to the city, but the land route is around 75 km
from the tip of the peninsula to the city.

The national grid is around 10 km away from the root of the peninsula,
and there are two pole rows feeding two transformer stations, but they
are very close, and are connected to a and b sides of the 420kV grid 
in the same place. 

This does not conform to national standards for redundancy. Therefore
the sea cable install next summer.

-- mrr

Back to alt.folklore.computers | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread

Thread

upgrading to telco DSL--charges? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 12:46 -0800
  Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:24 -0500
  Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-06 19:18 -0600
    Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-07 19:52 -0600
      Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:22 -0800
        Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? The New Other Guy <Newsgnus@gmail.com> - 2016-01-08 10:49 -0800
        Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 23:46 -0600
          Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 18:11 +1100
            Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-09 11:56 -0600
              Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:17 +1100
              Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 19:21 +0100
                Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-09 11:59 -0800
                Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-10 14:29 -0700
                Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 08:07 +1100
                Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-10 12:08 +0100
                Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-11 04:16 +1100
              Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-09 14:41 -0500
              Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-09 11:57 -0800
                Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 08:11 +1100
            Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-10 14:31 -0700
  Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? The New Other Guy <Newsgnus@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 17:52 -0800
  Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-01-08 10:15 -0800
    Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 22:12 +0100
      Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> - 2016-01-08 17:11 -0600
    Re: upgrading to telco DSL--charges? "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-08 18:06 -0500

csiph-web