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Groups > comp.sys.raspberry-pi > #38254
| From | Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.sys.raspberry-pi |
| Subject | Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) |
| Date | 2026-07-15 23:53 +0000 |
| Organization | none-at-all |
| Message-ID | <slrn115g7bk.gsq.spamtrap42@one.localnet> (permalink) |
| References | (15 earlier) <wwvik6j49x3.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <slrn115a3i3.ki8.spamtrap42@one.localnet> <1136hi9$pd9r$1@dont-email.me> <slrn115duh6.mr0.spamtrap42@one.localnet> <1138sat$1fqaq$2@dont-email.me> |
On 2026-07-15, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
> On 15 Jul 2026 03:10:30 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
>
>> On 2026-07-14, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 13 Jul 2026 16:11:47 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
>>>
>>>> An analogous thing happens in SQL database design.
>>>
>>> It does seem like you are trying to distract attention from the
>>> X11-versus-Wayland discussion. Your argument there is collapsing,
>>> so you try to pull the old smokescreen switcharoo: “Never mind
>>> that, look over here!”
>>
>> Collapsing? No, with the lack of mention of any sort of replacement
>> for the essential [-]-geometry option to launch simple clients
>> (xterm, mplayer, for example), it's the pro-Wayland argument that
>> has collapsed.
>
> Well, then, you need to put your money where your mouth is, right? If
> your argument hasn’t “collapsed”, then you need to point out what’s
> holding it up.
>
> Start by explaining why window-arrangement options should be
> reimplemented (often inconsistently) by every single X11 app, instead
> of being handled once and for all in the window manager.
If the window manager wants to do the placement and sizing, it
might be possible for that to work. However, to be usable from
the user's perspective, it shouldn't be much more difficult for
the user to specify the size and location of each window. Being
as the user doesn't routinely communicate directly with the
window manager, it might be a little difficult for the user to
tell the window manager where to place a specific window
instance.
With X, if I as user write a script to instantiate a dozen (or
more) xterms, mplayer instances, or whatever client, arranged in
a grid, a diagonal cascade arrangement, or whatever, the cost to
me is at most a couple dozen characters on each command line:
'-geometry 215x215+2010-0' or similar. The parameters for each
instance are local to the command that launches that instance.
From the user's perspective, it's simple and clean.
It has been a long time since I coded my own X oscilloscope
program and such, but if I remember correctly, there might be an
X library function that causes the X library to read the common
X-defined options. Or, perhaps I had to parse the option and
hand the parameter string to an X library function when I created
the window. Either way, it was at most a small handful of lines
of code. Documentation could supply a sample of that code, which
should solve the inconsistency problem, unless application
developers really want to be inconsistent. Whether it was a
library function or a function argument, the net effect was for
the application instance to tell the library, "This is where the
user wants the window created."
If Wayland developers simply cannot cope with the application
being launched acting as a go-between from the user to a library
or to the window manager, an alternative might be a single
command that would take the geometry parameters and the rest of
the command line. For example, instead of X's
xterm -geometry 48x16+100+200 -title ...
the user could do something like this:
launchWithGeometry 48x16+100+200 xterm -title ...
That way, the geometry processing could be done only once by the
launchWithGeometry program. The xterm or mplayer or whatever
would never see the geometry parameters. It might look a little
odd to the user, but it's not difficult enough to be much of a
barrier.
--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
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odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 12:03 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-08 17:04 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 19:57 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-08 17:33 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 19:54 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-08 23:17 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-09 02:46 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-09 04:34 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2026-07-09 11:14 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-09 18:31 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 22:59 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-10 02:54 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-09 18:29 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 22:58 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2026-07-11 12:32 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-11 14:05 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-11 19:37 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-11 22:08 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 00:01 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 03:55 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-12 05:53 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 16:14 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-12 21:42 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 22:16 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 23:29 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 23:27 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-13 08:37 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-13 16:11 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Tom Blenko <blenko@martingalesystems.com> - 2026-07-13 16:30 -0700
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-14 04:09 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-14 23:43 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-15 03:10 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-15 12:17 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-15 20:59 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-15 23:53 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-16 08:57 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-16 17:52 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-16 18:39 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-13 23:34 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-14 08:36 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 23:25 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 23:30 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-13 01:16 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-13 04:16 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-13 05:50 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 23:22 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-13 08:31 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 09:07 +0100
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 16:06 +0000
Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-11 22:07 +0000
resolved, sort of: Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-09 08:41 +0100
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