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Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk)

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On 2026-07-13, Tom Blenko <blenko@martingalesystems.com> wrote:
> In article <slrn115a3i3.ki8.spamtrap42@one.localnet>, Robert Riches
><spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> wrote:
>
>> An analogous thing happens in SQL database design.  Academics
>> preach normalization at an absolute goal.  However, with a
>> sufficiently complex system, full normalization can require each
>> query to use an excessive number of joins, and that can adversely
>> affect performance.  Those with practical experience in DB design
>> will concede that sometimes you need to denormalize slightly in
>> order to get reasonable performance.
>
> This is nonsense and a good hint is that you are putting words in the
> mouths of others and then attacking them for those words.
>
> I've never taken a database course but I had nearly 20 years of
> database design in industry for mid-level systems. I have read some
> database books written by academics along the way. The claim that they
> "preach normalization at (sic) an absolute goal" is plain wrong in my
> experience.

Yes, you caught my typo.

It appears your experience differs from mine.  Evidently, the
academics who wrote the books you read had a different take from
the professors who taught my DB courses at Oregon Graduate
Institute in 2001 and those who wrote the articles I studied with
colleagues around 2024-2025.  I'm glad you had the good fortune
in your study and practical experience to see and adopt a more
balanced approach.

> The academic books I've read describe multiple normal forms. I don't
> recall ever seeing one singled as superior to all the others, different
> normal forms reflect different (generally theoretical) perspectives on
> data and the relational calculus. Not surprising, I think, and I am
> confident that being informed about different perspectives has helped
> me design systems.
>
> Database design requires a designer to balance various factors,
> including where the data comes from, how it is to be maintained, and
> how it is to be used (including performance of queries). I have no idea
> which of all the tables I've designed and run in production may or may
> not be normalized by any of the multiple normalizations that have been
> described. But I read those books in order to improve my skills and it
> was time well spent.
>
>    Tom

Thank you for describing your experience and perspective.

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 12:03 +0100
  Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-08 17:04 +0000
    Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 19:57 +0100
  Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-08 17:33 +0000
    Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 19:54 +0100
  Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-08 23:17 +0000
    Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-09 02:46 +0000
      Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-09 04:34 +0000
        Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2026-07-09 11:14 +0100
          Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-09 18:31 +0100
            Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 22:59 +0000
              Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-10 02:54 +0000
          Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-09 18:29 +0000
          Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 22:58 +0000
            Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2026-07-11 12:32 +0100
              Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-11 14:05 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-11 19:37 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-11 22:08 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 00:01 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 03:55 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-12 05:53 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 16:14 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-12 21:42 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 22:16 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 23:29 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 23:27 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-13 08:37 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-13 16:11 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Tom Blenko <blenko@martingalesystems.com> - 2026-07-13 16:30 -0700
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-14 04:09 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-14 23:43 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-15 03:10 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-15 12:17 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-15 20:59 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-15 23:53 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-13 23:34 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-14 08:36 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 23:25 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 23:30 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-13 01:16 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-13 04:16 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-13 05:50 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 23:22 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-13 08:31 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 09:07 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 16:06 +0000
              Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-11 22:07 +0000
      resolved, sort of: Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-09 08:41 +0100

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