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Groups > comp.sys.raspberry-pi > #38234

Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk)

From Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net>
Newsgroups comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk)
Date 2026-07-12 23:27 +0000
Organization none-at-all
Message-ID <slrn11588nf.4f3.spamtrap42@one.localnet> (permalink)
References (9 earlier) <112va56$2jf86$2@dont-email.me> <slrn1157fb4.77u.spamtrap42@one.localnet> <11311nj$34pmm$5@dont-email.me> <slrn11584i8.rs.spamtrap42@one.localnet> <wwvy0ff3kpl.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>

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On 2026-07-12, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> writes:
>> On 2026-07-12, Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 12 Jul 2026 16:14:28 GMT, Robert Riches wrote:
>>>> Or, perhaps you're just following the far-too-frequently observed
>>>> pattern of, "The Wayland way is the _ONLY_ way!"
>>>
>>> I don’t see anybody offering a serious alternative. All I see is
>>> people like you, complaining about things changing but not serious
>>> about wanting to do something about it.
>>
>> Why is there a need to do anything?  X works just fine.  What
>> happened to the motto of not fixing something if it's not broken?
>> Why is there such a mad rush to re-invent things but do so more
>> poorly than the original, working solution?
>
> ‘Why’ is covered in the FAQ.
>
> https://wayland.freedesktop.org/faq.html

Yes, and those who have chosen to pathetically re-implement ntpd
for systemd (throwing out everything that makes ntpd a superior
solution) have similar justifications for their needless efforts.

There's a quote, something to the effect that those who do not
understand Unix will be condemned to re-implement it--poorly.
The same seems appropriate when describing systemd's poor
imitation of ntpd and Wayland.

>>>> However, the real beauty of X's network transparency is not in 'ssh
>>>> -X', it is in putting a hostname or IP address in the value of
>>>> $DISPLAY so that X clients can access X display servers wherever
>>>> they may be.
>
> That has very limited usefulness today due to its unacceptably poor
> security.

Yes, but in those cases where it is useful (far inside more than
a few levels of security fencing and such), it's still useful and
consumes a lot less resources than ssh -X.

>>> X11 was never “network-transparent”. If the network connection went
>>> down, all the remote X clients would die.
>>>
>>> To achieve network-transparency, you had to resort to something like
>>> VNC or RDP. And those sorts of protocols can work equally well with
>>> Wayland.
>>
>> Wrong!  Without resorting to VNC, RDP, or anything similar, I
>> have personally launched X clients that displayed on a display
>> server on a different host.  All you have to do is use the proper
>> syntax to specify the remote display server in $DISPLAY or when
>> calling the library function to open the display, set XHost
>> appropriately, and supply the XAUTH key/cookie/whatever.
>
> Lawrence is right that your clients die if the network goes down
> (e.g. if the client endpoint sleeps, which is the usual reason my remote
> X clients fail).

The first part about clients dying if the network connection goes
down is so obviously trivial that it doesn't deserve comment.  I
think that gimmick might be called a red herring.

Where Lawrence is wrong is that X does not require ssh -X, VNC,
RDP, or anything similar to do X displaying across a network.
That is what is normally meant by X's network transparency.

> Whether that’s the definition of ‘network transaprent’ I’ll not take a
> view on. But it’s certainly inconvenient.

Not sure what you mean is inconvenient.

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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Thread

odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 12:03 +0100
  Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-08 17:04 +0000
    Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 19:57 +0100
  Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-08 17:33 +0000
    Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 19:54 +0100
  Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-08 23:17 +0000
    Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-09 02:46 +0000
      Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-09 04:34 +0000
        Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2026-07-09 11:14 +0100
          Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-09 18:31 +0100
            Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 22:59 +0000
              Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-10 02:54 +0000
          Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-09 18:29 +0000
          Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 22:58 +0000
            Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2026-07-11 12:32 +0100
              Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-11 14:05 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-11 19:37 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-11 22:08 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 00:01 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 03:55 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-12 05:53 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 16:14 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-12 21:42 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 22:16 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 23:29 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 23:27 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-13 08:37 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-13 16:11 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Tom Blenko <blenko@martingalesystems.com> - 2026-07-13 16:30 -0700
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-14 04:09 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-13 23:34 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-14 08:36 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 23:25 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 23:30 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-13 01:16 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-13 04:16 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-13 05:50 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 23:22 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-13 08:31 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 09:07 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 16:06 +0000
              Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-11 22:07 +0000
      resolved, sort of: Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-09 08:41 +0100

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