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Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk)

From Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net>
Newsgroups comp.sys.raspberry-pi
Subject Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk)
Date 2026-07-12 16:06 +0000
Organization none-at-all
Message-ID <slrn1157esk.77u.spamtrap42@one.localnet> (permalink)
References (5 earlier) <112p92a$p5ou$2@dont-email.me> <112t93r$20icj$1@dont-email.me> <wwvjyr1brrk.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk> <slrn115640n.d2h.spamtrap42@one.localnet> <wwv7bn06386.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>

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On 2026-07-12, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> writes:
>> On 2026-07-11, Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>> Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> writes:
>>>> On 09/07/2026 23:58, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>>> One thing is for sure: giving control to the apps themselves is never
>>>>> going to be the optimal solution.
>>>>
>>>> It's not clear to me that there is any one solution that is optimal in
>>>> all cases.
>>>>
>>>> It's certainly nice to allow the apps to be able to request a
>>>> particular size/position, but of course the wm should be able to
>>>> ignore the request if that location makes no sense. No, the app
>>>> shouldn't have *control*, just be able to express a preference.
>>>
>>> I would argue that for the most part, the window position preferences
>>> (or outright control) should come from the user, not the application at
>>> all.  That does point to a system-level component (window manager,
>>> compositor, whatever) managing positions, following user configuration,
>>> rather than the application.
>>>
>>> There is some nuance here when an application either opens more than one
>>> window, or opens a window that is in some way logically connected to
>>> another application. Depending on what’s going on it might be
>>> preferrable for the new window to be overlapping the existing window
>>> (e.g. menus, tooltips, confirmation dialogs, etc), or it might be
>>> preferrable for it to not overlapping the existing window if possible
>>> (e.g. a pop-out media player).
>>>
>>> Wayland already covers much of this but there does seem to be a gap for
>>> a niche set of use cases. It always seems to be the same application
>>> mentioned each time this comes up, so it’s unclear if the niche is
>>> bigger than 1.
>>
>> Okay, here's one niche use case:
>>
>>   - I want to run a shell script that opens four xterms (or
>>     similar), and on the command line that starts each instance
>>     the script specifies colors and screen size/position.
>>
>>   - On another day of the week, I have a different shell script
>>     that opens nine xterms (or similar).  Again, each command
>>     line in the script specifies colors and screen
>>     size/positions.
>>
>> Here's another:
>>
>>   - I want to monitor a group of maybe a dozen machines involved
>>     in a performance benchmark, so I have a script that opens a
>>     small monitoring application (maybe xload or "vmstat 3" or
>>     similar) on various machines.  I would use the equivalent of
>>     "ssh -X ..."  to launch them, since IIUC Wayland doesn't do
>>     network transparency (defined as a client application
>>     throwing its display to display server).
>>
>> Oh, another:
>>
>>   - I want to open several web browser windows in specific screen
>>     sizes and positions to run a web app.
>
> i.e. you want user control of window positions, which is what I’m
> arguing for:

Happy that there's some agreement.

>| I would argue that for the most part, the window position preferences
>| (or outright control) should come from the user, not the application
>| at all.
>
> This is not inconsistent with the user control being expressed via a
> window manager rather than through the application, so I have no idea
> what point you’re trying to make here.

For the record, I did not write the "I would argue ..." piece.
IIUC, it appears you did.

While it may be possible for user preference to be expressed via
the window manager, in the cases I'm thinking of, it's much
easier for the user to simply add the [-]-geometry option to the
command line (perhaps in a shell script) when launching the
application(s).

-- 
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)

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Thread

odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 12:03 +0100
  Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-08 17:04 +0000
    Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 19:57 +0100
  Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-08 17:33 +0000
    Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-08 19:54 +0100
  Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-08 23:17 +0000
    Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-09 02:46 +0000
      Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-09 04:34 +0000
        Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2026-07-09 11:14 +0100
          Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-09 18:31 +0100
            Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 22:59 +0000
              Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-10 02:54 +0000
          Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-09 18:29 +0000
          Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-09 22:58 +0000
            Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Daniel James <daniel@me.invalid> - 2026-07-11 12:32 +0100
              Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-11 14:05 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-11 19:37 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-11 22:08 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 00:01 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 03:55 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-12 05:53 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 16:14 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-12 21:42 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 22:16 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 23:29 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 23:27 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-13 08:37 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-13 16:11 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Tom Blenko <blenko@martingalesystems.com> - 2026-07-13 16:30 -0700
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-14 04:09 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-14 23:43 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-15 03:10 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-15 12:17 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-15 20:59 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-15 23:53 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-16 08:57 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-16 17:52 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-16 18:39 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-13 23:34 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-14 08:36 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-16 22:12 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-17 01:16 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-19 10:15 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-19 10:37 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-19 18:39 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-19 20:31 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-20 00:13 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-20 12:15 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2026-07-20 18:42 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 01:13 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-21 08:56 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> - 2026-07-21 12:25 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-21 18:03 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-21 23:23 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-21 23:25 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-19 17:55 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-21 23:27 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-17 07:00 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 23:25 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 23:30 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-13 01:16 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-13 04:16 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-13 05:50 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-07-12 23:22 +0000
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-13 08:31 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-07-12 09:07 +0100
                Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Robert Riches <spamtrap42@jacob21819.net> - 2026-07-12 16:06 +0000
              Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-07-11 22:07 +0000
      resolved, sort of: Re: odd windowing issue (perl Tk) Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2026-07-09 08:41 +0100

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