Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge

From	Max <maxturv26@gmx.net>
Newsgroups	sci.crypt
Subject	Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge
Date	2021-10-03 18:02 +0200
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<sjck63$np9$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <sj7r3v$avt$1@dont-email.me> <sj8fl6$b86$1@gioia.aioe.org> <JfadnZb9g-VW4MX8nZ2dnUU78QudnZ2d@giganews.com> <sja0fp$1mr4$1@gioia.aioe.org> <sjc0ik$dqt$1@dont-email.me>

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On 03.10.21 12:27, wizzofozz wrote:

[...]

> 
> I will embarrass myself a bit more, by admitting I still don't see it.
> I understand taking a letter from position 13 and placing it either to 
> beginning or end. But based on what is that decision (begin/end) made? 

That part I also don't know, yet. But we could have wasted so much time, 
trying to get the input order into this as well. So I am glad about 
Leo's hint. So, the correct sorting order is

(right = 1, left = 0)

b = 1  -> 1
a = 0  -> 0
b = 1  -> 0
b = 1  -> 1
y = 24 -> 0
l = 11 -> 1
e = 4  -> 1
v = 21 -> 1
e = 4  -> 1
l = 11 -> 1
s = 18 -> 0
o = 14 -> 1
e = 4 - > 0
a = 0  -> 1
s = 18 -> 0
y = 24 -> 1

I think, this we can take as certain. The remaining question is, how do 
we get from the keyword to this bit-order, right?

What information could the keyword/a letter in the keyword contain?
1. letter-value mod 2
2. "Is the letter-value higher (or equal) of lower (or equal) than the 
preceding one?"
3. (The XOR-result or difference of some letter-values) mod 2
4. How many times has a letter appeared in the keyword before?
5. Position of a letter in the key-word

Can you think of anything else? I guess, it will be some combination of 
some of these and in his "harder" ciphers, Leo will add letters from the 
plaintext to the mix as well.

What could a letter from the key word encode?
- The position (left or right)
- A switch of the position (switch or don't switch)

It's also possible that the keyword gets permuted/modified, as well, 
isn't it? But I would leave that out for now (it's still babby level).

> I tested (again) a couple of methods with alternating counter (which 
> cannot be correct anyway because of e.g. 'WVU'), based on lsb of keybyte 
> etc, but I don't get the correct permutation (I also understand it does 
> not matter for 'cracking' the babbylevel ciphertext, 

> but now I'm obsessed with it).

Same here. :-) I've been looking for a decent hand-cipher in the past 
(applicable by hand for reasonably small amounts of plaintext, but hard 
to break, even with computer analysis). This may be a candidate for 
this. We'll see.

> 
> Ozz
>

Thread

Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-09-27 21:15 +0000
  Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2021-09-27 23:12 +0100
    Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-09-27 22:32 +0000
    Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-09-28 00:51 +0200
      Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-09-28 04:04 -0500
        Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2021-09-28 11:29 +0100
        Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 21:11 +0200
          Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-09-29 00:00 +0200
            Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 23:07 +0200
              Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 22:29 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-02 04:20 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-02 12:18 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 13:28 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-02 16:25 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 17:25 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 12:28 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-10-02 10:42 -0500
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-02 18:13 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 12:27 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-03 18:02 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Stefan Claas <spam.trap.usenet@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 09:23 -0700
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 21:32 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-18 08:52 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-18 19:24 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-19 00:47 +0200
            Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-17 17:17 +0200
              Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-17 20:05 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-10-25 17:18 -0500
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-26 20:03 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-27 19:49 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-10-27 17:15 -0500
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-28 12:51 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-28 13:33 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-31 22:17 +0100
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2021-10-31 22:38 +0000
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-10-31 18:42 -0500
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-10-31 19:30 -0700
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-11-01 21:40 +0100

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