Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge

From	Max <maxturv26@gmx.net>
Newsgroups	sci.crypt
Subject	Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge
Date	2021-10-02 12:18 +0200
Organization	Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID	<sj9bli$1ui7$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References	(4 earlier) <sivpc9$av7$1@dont-email.me> <sj03aq$puk$1@dont-email.me> <sj58uc$nlj$1@dont-email.me> <sj7r3v$avt$1@dont-email.me> <sj8fl6$b86$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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On 02.10.21 04:20, Max wrote:
> On 01.10.21 22:29, wizzofozz wrote:
>> Op 30-9-2021 om 23:07 schreef wizzofozz:
>>> Op 29-9-2021 om 00:00 schreef Max:
>>>
>>>> The first challenge ("babbylevel") is just a simple monoalphabetic 
>>>> substitution with this mapping:
>>>>
>>>> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz
>>>> WVUPMOABCDEFGXY??LKQRST?I?
>>>>
>>
>> For now I assume the full mapping is:
>>
>> WVUPMOABCDEFGXYZNLKQRSTHIJ
> 
> Makes sense. I'll work with this for now.
> So, the key has 16 letters. The alphabet has 26. There is a stretch of 7 
> "unchanged" letters, at the beginning of the alphabet "ABCDEFG" and 3 
> "unchanged" letters as the end of the alphabet "XYZ".
> 
> What if this algorithm works "inside out", taking single letters from 
> the middle of the alphabet and deciding to put it at the beginning oŕ at 
> the end? That would also explain, that the backwards-stretch "WVU" is at 
> the beginning, not at the end of the key.
> 
> Let's see:
> 
>    ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> b ABCDEFGHIJKLM*OPQRSTUVWXYZN
> a OABCDEFGHIJKLM-*PQRSTUVWXYZN
> b MOABCDEFGHIJKL*--PQRSTUVWXYZN
> b MOABCDEFGHIJK*---PQRSTUVWXYZNL
> y MOABCDEFGHIJ*----PQRSTUVWXYZNLK
> l PMOABCDEFGHIJ-----*QRSTUVWXYZNLK
> e PMOABCDEFGHIJ------*RSTUVWXYZNLKQ
> v PMOABCDEFGHIJ-------*STUVWXYZNLKQR
> e PMOABCDEFGHIJ--------*TUVWXYZNLKQRS
> l PMOABCDEFGHIJ---------*UVWXYZNLKQRST
> s UPMOABCDEFGHIJ----------*VWXYZNLKQRST
> o VUPMOABCDEFGHIJ-----------*WXYZNLKQRST
> e WVUPMOABCDEFGHIJ------------*XYZNLKQRST
> a WVUPMOABCDEFGHI*-------------XYZNLKQRSTJ
> s WVUPMOABCDEFGH*--------------XYZNLKQRSTJI
> y WVUPMOABCDEFG*---------------XYZNLKQRSTJIH

Ok. This isn't the only possible order in which to sort the letters. 
Some steps are forced, but not all. E.g., for the 3rd b one could either 
move the L to the right or the P to the left. This creates a tree. Have 
to dig into this later.

> 
> This looks promising.
> 
> That would also mean that the full mapping is
> 
> WVUPMOABCDEFGXYZNLKQRSTJIH
> 
> which is also consistent with the letters we know.
> 
> So, the question remains: When will I take a letter from the right vs. 
> the left side and when do I put it to the right or to the left?
> 
> key: babbylevelsoeasy
> 
> I start in the middle, between M and N.
> 
> "b" means: take the right of the two "inner letters" and put it to the 
> right end, this means:
> 
> b : right => right
> a : right => left
> b : left => left
> b : left => right
> y : left => right
> l : right => left
> e : right => right
> v : right => right
> e : right => right
> l : right => right
> s : right => left
> o : right => left
> e : right => left
> a : left => right
> s : left => right
> y : left => right >
> I don't see an easy mapping here and it's too late for a tricky one. 
> Maybe tomorrow. Maybe you see something in this that I don't see.
> 
>  > I'm still thinking along these lines. My current 'swap' algorithm
>  > generates stuff like WVUTSRQPONMYXZABCDEFGLKJIH, which is pretty close
> 
> [...]
> 
> Not bad. The code is simple enough and the result is indeed pretty 
> close. Yet, for now, I tend towards my approach.
> 
>>
>> I hope the babbylevelsoeasy is not much harder than this :-)
> 
> :-)
> 
>>
>> Ozz
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Max
>

Thread

Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-09-27 21:15 +0000
  Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2021-09-27 23:12 +0100
    Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-09-27 22:32 +0000
    Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-09-28 00:51 +0200
      Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-09-28 04:04 -0500
        Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2021-09-28 11:29 +0100
        Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-09-28 21:11 +0200
          Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-09-29 00:00 +0200
            Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-09-30 23:07 +0200
              Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-01 22:29 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-02 04:20 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-02 12:18 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 13:28 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-02 16:25 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 17:25 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-02 12:28 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-10-02 10:42 -0500
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-02 18:13 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 12:27 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-03 18:02 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Stefan Claas <spam.trap.usenet@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 09:23 -0700
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-03 21:32 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-18 08:52 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-18 19:24 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-19 00:47 +0200
            Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-17 17:17 +0200
              Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-17 20:05 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-10-25 17:18 -0500
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-26 20:03 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-27 19:49 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-10-27 17:15 -0500
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Max <maxturv26@gmx.net> - 2021-10-28 12:51 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-28 13:33 +0200
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-10-31 22:17 +0100
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2021-10-31 22:38 +0000
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge Leo <usenet@gkbrk.com> - 2021-10-31 18:42 -0500
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-10-31 19:30 -0700
                Re: Toy cipher I made for a reddit challenge wizzofozz <oxxxxxxxxxxxs@gmail.com> - 2021-11-01 21:40 +0100

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