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Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof

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Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> writes:

>> On 9/4/21 2:13 PM, olcott wrote:
>>> On 9/4/2021 1:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>>> [ Malicious cross posting snipped. ]

>>>> In comp.theory olcott <NoOne@nowhere.com> wrote:

>>>>> .... valid on the basis of the known equivalence between the direct
>>>>> execution of a computation and its simulation by a UTM.

>>>> Not really.  There might well not be a simulation of the program.

>>> I am stopping here. If it is impossible to simulate the TM description
>>> of a TM then it is not a proper TM.

> I am pretty sure he is referring to the unwarranted assumption that any
> simulation at all is involved.

Thanks, Ben, that's exactly what I was trying to say.  Apologies to PO
for being unclear, here.

> The context has been lost, including the key part that Alan was
> objecting to:

> ||    In computability theory, the halting problem is the
> ||    problem of determining, from a description of an arbitrary
> ||    computer program and an input,
> ||    whether the simulation of this program must be aborted to
> ||    prevent it from running forever.

> The phrase "the simulation" implies there is simulation involved.  Had
> PO written "whether /a/ simulation of this program runs forever" the
> reference to simulation would be silly and superfluous, but not wrong.

> -- 
> Ben.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).

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The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-03 19:18 -0500
  Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-03 21:05 -0400
    Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-03 20:18 -0500
      Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-03 21:53 -0400
        Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-03 21:13 -0500
          Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 06:50 -0400
            Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 08:52 -0500
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 10:14 -0400
            Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 09:06 -0500
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 10:18 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 09:58 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:16 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2021-09-04 10:19 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:40 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 11:09 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 12:33 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 11:55 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 13:13 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 12:21 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2021-09-04 13:34 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 12:46 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 14:15 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 13:47 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 16:48 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 15:59 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-04 22:11 +0100
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 18:01 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 17:15 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 18:39 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 17:52 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 19:09 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-09-17 19:27 +0100
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-17 13:41 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-17 15:15 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-17 14:19 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-17 16:02 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-09-17 15:11 -0700
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-17 17:36 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-17 19:28 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 10:16 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:44 -0400
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:43 -0400
  Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-09-04 18:04 +0000
    Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 13:13 -0500
      Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 14:25 -0400
        Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-04 21:47 +0100
          Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-09-05 09:37 +0000
            Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof: [ Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-05 09:46 -0500
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof: [ Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-05 16:08 +0100
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof: [ Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ] Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2021-09-05 12:41 -0400
  Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-04 22:40 +0100

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