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Groups > comp.theory > #38857

Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.theory
Subject Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof
Date 2021-09-04 21:47 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87sfykoyo2.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References <2KidnW0lAqejJq_8nZ2dnUU7-UXNnZ2d@giganews.com> <sh0cej$24fe$1@news.muc.de> <96WdnSMro6-uKq78nZ2dnUU7-aOdnZ2d@giganews.com> <bSOYI.24045$nR3.12924@fx38.iad>

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Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> writes:

> On 9/4/21 2:13 PM, olcott wrote:
>> On 9/4/2021 1:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>>> [ Malicious cross posting snipped. ]
>>>
>>> In comp.theory olcott <NoOne@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> .... valid on the basis of the known equivalence between the direct
>>>> execution of a computation and its simulation by a UTM.
>>>
>>> Not really.  There might well not be a simulation of the program.
>> 
>> I am stopping here. If it is impossible to simulate the TM description
>> of a TM then it is not a proper TM.

I am pretty sure he is referring to the unwarranted assumption that any
simulation at all is involved.  The context has been lost, including the
key part that Alan was objecting to:

||    In computability theory, the halting problem is the
||    problem of determining, from a description of an arbitrary
||    computer program and an input,
||    whether the simulation of this program must be aborted to
||    prevent it from running forever.

The phrase "the simulation" implies there is simulation involved.  Had
PO written "whether /a/ simulation of this program runs forever" the
reference to simulation would be silly and superfluous, but not wrong.

-- 
Ben.

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Thread

The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-03 19:18 -0500
  Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-03 21:05 -0400
    Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-03 20:18 -0500
      Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-03 21:53 -0400
        Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-03 21:13 -0500
          Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 06:50 -0400
            Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 08:52 -0500
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 10:14 -0400
            Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 09:06 -0500
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 10:18 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 09:58 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:16 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2021-09-04 10:19 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:40 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 11:09 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 12:33 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 11:55 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 13:13 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 12:21 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2021-09-04 13:34 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 12:46 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 14:15 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 13:47 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 16:48 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 15:59 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-04 22:11 +0100
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 18:01 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 17:15 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 18:39 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 17:52 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 19:09 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-09-17 19:27 +0100
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-17 13:41 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-17 15:15 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-17 14:19 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-17 16:02 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-09-17 15:11 -0700
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-17 17:36 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-17 19:28 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 10:16 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:44 -0400
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:43 -0400
  Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-09-04 18:04 +0000
    Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 13:13 -0500
      Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 14:25 -0400
        Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-04 21:47 +0100
          Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-09-05 09:37 +0000
            Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof: [ Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-05 09:46 -0500
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof: [ Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-05 16:08 +0100
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof: [ Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ] Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2021-09-05 12:41 -0400
  Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-04 22:40 +0100

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