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Groups > comp.theory > #38844

Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof

Subject Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof
Newsgroups comp.theory
References <2KidnW0lAqejJq_8nZ2dnUU7-UXNnZ2d@giganews.com> <sh0cej$24fe$1@news.muc.de> <96WdnSMro6-uKq78nZ2dnUU7-aOdnZ2d@giganews.com>
From Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org>
Message-ID <bSOYI.24045$nR3.12924@fx38.iad> (permalink)
Organization Forte - www.forteinc.com
Date 2021-09-04 14:25 -0400

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On 9/4/21 2:13 PM, olcott wrote:
> On 9/4/2021 1:04 PM, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> [ Malicious cross posting snipped. ]
>>
>> In comp.theory olcott <NoOne@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>> .... valid on the basis of the known equivalence between the direct
>>> execution of a computation and its simulation by a UTM.
>>
>> Not really.  There might well not be a simulation of the program.
>>
> 
> I am stopping here. If it is impossible to simulate the TM description
> of a TM then it is not a proper TM.

I think he is refering to the fact that you refer to a Theorem about
FULL simulation showing the behavior of the simulated program, but all
you do is a PARTIAL simulation,

There is no equivalent equivalence between the direct execution of a
comptation and its PARTIAL simulation by a partial simulator.

YOUR logic presumes that copies of your decider are actually UTMs, when
they are not. It doesn't matter that they start in a 'pure simulator
mode', it is known that they WILL exit it for this input, so their
analyses must take that into account, which it doesn't. This means that
the transform of the simulation of the simulator to the simulation of
the simulated machine is NOT valid, and can create incorrectly
determined infinite execution.

Since the copies of the decider DON'T act FULLY as a UTM, there is no
full 'simulation' to apply the theorom to.

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Thread

The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-03 19:18 -0500
  Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-03 21:05 -0400
    Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-03 20:18 -0500
      Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-03 21:53 -0400
        Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-03 21:13 -0500
          Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 06:50 -0400
            Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 08:52 -0500
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 10:14 -0400
            Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 09:06 -0500
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 10:18 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 09:58 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:16 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <polcott2@gmail.com> - 2021-09-04 10:19 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:40 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 11:09 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 12:33 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 11:55 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 13:13 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 12:21 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2021-09-04 13:34 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 12:46 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 14:15 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 13:47 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 16:48 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 15:59 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-04 22:11 +0100
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 18:01 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 17:15 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 18:39 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 17:52 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 19:09 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-09-17 19:27 +0100
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-17 13:41 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-17 15:15 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-17 14:19 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-17 16:02 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-09-17 15:11 -0700
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-17 17:36 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof [ Liar Liar pants on fire ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-17 19:28 -0400
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 10:16 -0500
                Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:44 -0400
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 11:43 -0400
  Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-09-04 18:04 +0000
    Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-04 13:13 -0500
      Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-09-04 14:25 -0400
        Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-04 21:47 +0100
          Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-09-05 09:37 +0000
            Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof: [ Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-09-05 09:46 -0500
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof: [ Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-05 16:08 +0100
              Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof: [ Ĥ applied to ⟨Ĥ⟩ ] Richard Damon <news.x.richarddamon@xoxy.net> - 2021-09-05 12:41 -0400
  Re: The key mistake of the Peter Linz HP proof Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-09-04 22:40 +0100

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