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| From | André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory |
| Subject | Re: Halting Problem Solved |
| Date | 2021-07-22 08:23 -0600 |
| Organization | Christians and Atheists United Against Creeping Agnosticism |
| Message-ID | <sdbv0k$igk$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (17 earlier) <z7mdnbWXpuaCeGX9nZ2dnUU7-UnNnZ2d@giganews.com> <sdaptf$hrd$1@dont-email.me> <hoOdnTty8NxEa2X9nZ2dnUU7-RvNnZ2d@giganews.com> <sdb4op$7m4$1@dont-email.me> <jdSdnQUmPdRp8WT9nZ2dnUU7-V3NnZ2d@giganews.com> |
On 2021-07-22 07:04, olcott wrote:
> On 7/22/2021 1:55 AM, André G. Isaak wrote:
>> On 2021-07-21 22:40, olcott wrote:
>>> On 7/21/2021 10:50 PM, André G. Isaak wrote:
>>>> On 2021-07-21 21:25, olcott wrote:
>>>>> On 7/21/2021 9:57 PM, André G. Isaak wrote:
>>>>>> On 2021-07-21 19:57, olcott wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/21/2021 8:49 PM, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>>>>>>>> olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> writes:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did not even glance at any of the words
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's simple. I asked which of these three facts you reject:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (a) P(P) halts.
>>>>>>>> (b) H(P, P) == 0.
>>>>>>>> (c) H(P, I) == 0 is only correct if P(I) does not halt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> and it seems the answer is (c). This despite your disingenuous
>>>>>>>> (i.e. dishonest) refusal to make your rejection of what halt
>>>>>>>> decider is
>>>>>>>> clear. (Details in the parent article for those who do read.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The P of int main() { P(P); } halts
>>>>>>> and H(P,P)==0 is the correct halts status.
>>>>>>> It is not a contradiction it is a paradox.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This statement is entirely laughable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If P(P) halts and H(P, P) claims P(P) doesn't halt, this clearly
>>>>>> demonstrates that whatever logic your H is using is *wrong*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If you bothered to pay complete attention you would understand that
>>>>> the input to H(P,P) cannot possibly reach its final state thus
>>>>> never halts.
>>>>
>>>> Even if this statement were true, it is entirely irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>> A halt decider is *defined* as a TM which takes the description of a
>>>> Turing Machine and an input string and determines whether the
>>>> computation described by those two inputs halts.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, H(P, P) is supposed to answer the question 'Does the
>>>> computation P(P) halt?'
>>>>
>>>> It is *not* concerned with the unrelated question 'Does a simulation
>>>> of P(P) inside of H halt?' or 'Does a simulation of some modified
>>>> version of P(P) halt?' or any other question which you might imagine
>>>> as part of your futile attempt to claim that your H is actually
>>>> correct.
>>>>
>>>> P(P) halts when run *independently*. That is the *only* thing that
>>>> matters by the very definition of the problem.
>>>>
>>>> Everything else you claim is entirely irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>> André
>>>>
>>>
>>> The only reason that P of int main() { P(P); } halts on its input is
>>> that H(P,P) decides its input correctly thus H(P,P)==0 IS NOT WRONG !!!
>>
>>
>> Um. No.
>>
>> The reason that P(P) halts is because it reaches a final state in a
>> finite amount of time by mechanically following its program.
>>
>
> (a) The reason that it is construed as halting is that it reaches its
> final state.
It isn't just 'construed' as halting. It *is* halting.
> (b) The reason that it reaches its final state is that H(P,P) returns 0;
>
> (c) The reason that H(P,P) returns zero is that the pure simulation of
> its input can't possibly reach its final state.
>
> (d) When the pure simulation of an input can't possibly ever reach its
> final state then this input never halts.
A pure simulation of P(P) would behave exactly as P(P) behaves. Since
P(P) halts, a pure simulation of P(P) would also halt.
>> To claim the P(P) halts because H(P, P) claims it doesn't halt is absurd.
>>
>
> The only reason that P of int main(){ P(P); } halts is because H(P,P)
> correctly decided that its input never halts.
So P(P) halts because H(P, P) "correctly" decides that P(P) doesn't halt.
I look forward to seeing how you plan on justifying the use of the word
'correctly' in the above sentence in your final paper. I'm sure it will
go over well with whomever you submit this paper to.
André
--
To email remove 'invalid' & replace 'gm' with well known Google mail
service.
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Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-16 19:00 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 19:28 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-16 19:31 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 14:24 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-16 19:46 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 14:56 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-16 20:56 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 15:00 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-16 22:42 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-16 22:24 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 17:32 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-16 22:54 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 23:15 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-17 09:10 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-17 09:37 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-17 17:24 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-17 12:06 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 02:45 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-18 12:26 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 09:41 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 01:36 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de> - 2021-07-17 17:11 +0000
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory)[ Strachey P ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-17 07:40 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-17 16:47 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-17 16:37 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [ Flibble is correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-17 11:40 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [ Flibble is correct ] David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-18 11:43 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved Andy Walker <anw@cuboid.co.uk> - 2021-07-18 12:13 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-18 15:15 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-18 07:42 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-18 17:02 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-18 10:12 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-18 13:22 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-18 12:30 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Pathological self-reference error (Olcott 2004) ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 08:41 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-18 19:55 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-18 21:00 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-18 14:22 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-18 20:08 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-19 02:06 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-19 21:09 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 11:24 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 03:43 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 13:53 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 14:02 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 06:30 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-20 10:22 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-19 09:11 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 01:13 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 11:34 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Jeff Barnett <jbb@notatt.com> - 2021-07-19 02:24 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-07-19 13:06 +0200
Re: Halting Problem Solved Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 04:52 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 08:14 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 08:43 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-19 21:12 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 09:16 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-19 21:25 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 00:38 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 09:43 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [ Flibble is correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 09:48 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Newberry <newberryxy@gmail.com> - 2021-07-19 13:30 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 16:16 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-20 17:21 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) "dklei...@gmail.com" <dkleinecke@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 16:37 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-20 18:37 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-20 18:02 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 23:32 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2021-07-21 08:17 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-21 09:24 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Newberry <newberryxy@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 23:26 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 21:57 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-16 22:06 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 16:10 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Mr Flibble <flibble@reddwarf.jmc> - 2021-07-16 22:22 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 16:30 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 13:31 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 21:46 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-16 16:07 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 23:59 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-17 10:35 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 03:32 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 09:55 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 01:35 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-20 09:22 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-20 08:40 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-20 10:18 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-20 09:29 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Daniel Pehoushek <pehoushek1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-20 09:45 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-20 10:33 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-21 01:28 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 09:48 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-21 09:41 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-22 01:12 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 20:27 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-21 18:37 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 20:49 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-21 19:01 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-22 02:49 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 20:57 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-21 19:19 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-21 20:57 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 22:25 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-21 21:50 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-21 23:40 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-21 22:26 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-22 00:55 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 08:04 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-22 08:23 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved (title is a misnomer) olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 09:52 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (title is a misnomer) Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-22 10:24 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-22 10:22 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-22 21:53 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 16:47 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-22 14:54 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-23 00:04 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-22 18:22 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-23 00:53 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 09:04 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 09:41 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-23 22:13 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 16:54 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 15:19 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-25 04:02 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2021-07-22 18:05 -0600
Re: Halting Problem Solved olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-23 08:36 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-23 08:51 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] [ H(P,P)==0 is correct ] "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-07-21 21:04 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved [ Ben admits that he lied ] Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-07-19 21:17 -0700
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-16 23:59 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [Ben is a liar ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-17 10:38 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [Ben is a liar ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-18 03:12 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [Ben is a liar ] olcott <NoOne@NoWhere.com> - 2021-07-19 10:02 -0500
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) [Ben is a liar ] Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2021-07-20 01:36 +0100
Re: Halting Problem Solved (Black Box Decider Theory) Charlie-Boo <shymathguy@gmail.com> - 2021-07-22 08:12 -0700
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