Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE()

From	Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Newsgroups	linux.kernel
Subject	Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE()
Date	2016-11-25 19:00 +0100
Message-ID	<sHsX0-3Dv-3@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <sHq8N-1SA-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <sHqBQ-2hw-29@gated-at.bofh.it> <sHroe-2Rp-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <sHroe-2Rp-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <sHstY-3tw-27@gated-at.bofh.it>
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway

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On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 9:28 AM, Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com> wrote:
On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> wrote:
>>
>> IE, they are strictly stronger than {READ,WRITE}_ONCE().

No, they are strictly bullshit.

Stop this idiocy. We went through this once already.

> Uh, so, READ/WRITE_ONCE are non-atomic now. I missed that.

No.

READ/WRITE_ONCE() are atomic *WHEN*THAT*IS*POSSIBLE*. So for something
that fits in a register, it will read it in one atomic access. For
something that fits in a register and is _possible_ to write
atomically, it will do so.

But sometimes it's not going to be atomic. We do not for a moment try
to make multi-word accesses be atomic. Not even if you could try to
use some magic cmpxchg16b thing. It's not "atomic" in that sense: it
will be doing multiple accesses.

Similarly, if you try to write a 8- or 16-bit word on alpha with
WRITE_ONCE() or you try to do other things, you have what's coming to
you.

And they just force some "copy to stable storage" when it isn't (ie a
"memcpy()" is not necessarily a single access and might be done as
multiple overlapping reads, but the end result is stable).

So trying to make anything else out of them is f*cking stupid.

READ_ONCE() and friends do the right thing. Trying to limit them is
*wrong*, because the restrictions would simply make them less useful.
And trying to make up something new is pointless and stupid.

So leave this code alone. Don't add some stupid "SINGLE_LOAD()" crap.
That's just moronic. READ_ONCE() is that, and so much more.

               Linus

Thread

[PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-24 11:30 +0100
  [PATCH 2/3] vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-24 11:30 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 2/3] vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com> - 2016-11-24 12:20 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 2/3] vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Cornelia Huck <cornelia.huck@de.ibm.com> - 2016-11-24 12:40 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 2/3] vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com> - 2016-11-25 03:50 +0100
  [PATCH 1/3] tools/virtio: fix READ_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-24 11:30 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 1/3] tools/virtio: fix READ_ONCE() Cornelia Huck <cornelia.huck@de.ibm.com> - 2016-11-24 12:40 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 1/3] tools/virtio: fix READ_ONCE() Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com> - 2016-11-25 03:40 +0100
  [PATCH 3/3] tools/virtio: use {READ,WRITE}_ONCE() in uaccess.h Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-24 11:30 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 3/3] tools/virtio: use {READ,WRITE}_ONCE() in uaccess.h Cornelia Huck <cornelia.huck@de.ibm.com> - 2016-11-24 12:40 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 3/3] tools/virtio: use {READ,WRITE}_ONCE() in uaccess.h Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com> - 2016-11-25 03:50 +0100
  Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com> - 2016-11-24 21:40 +0100
    Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-25 12:30 +0100
      Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com> - 2016-11-25 12:40 +0100
        Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-25 13:30 +0100
          Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-11-25 13:50 +0100
            Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-11-25 13:50 +0100
              Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Boqun Feng <boqun.feng@gmail.com> - 2016-11-25 16:00 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com> - 2016-11-25 16:30 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-25 17:20 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-11-25 17:20 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-25 17:40 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com> - 2016-11-25 18:00 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-25 18:30 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Peter Zijlstra <peterz@infradead.org> - 2016-11-25 18:50 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com> - 2016-11-25 19:50 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com> - 2016-11-25 22:10 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Christian Borntraeger <borntraeger@de.ibm.com> - 2016-11-25 22:50 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Dmitry Vyukov <dvyukov@google.com> - 2016-11-25 18:30 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-25 18:50 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2016-11-25 19:00 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-25 19:10 +0100
                Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org> - 2016-11-25 19:50 +0100
            Re: [PATCH 0/3] virtio/vringh: kill off ACCESS_ONCE() Mark Rutland <mark.rutland@arm.com> - 2016-11-25 15:40 +0100

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