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Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve

From Manfred <noname@add.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve
Date 2021-06-03 16:43 +0200
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <s9apr3$1ai0$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (21 earlier) <s95pus$10s$1@dont-email.me> <s95trr$1bna$1@gioia.aioe.org> <s97c05$7fh$1@dont-email.me> <s98ceu$1rbv$1@gioia.aioe.org> <s98tdn$6qc$1@dont-email.me>

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On 6/2/2021 11:32 PM, David Brown wrote:
> On 02/06/2021 18:43, Manfred wrote:
>> On 6/2/2021 9:29 AM, David Brown wrote:
>>> On 01/06/2021 20:21, Manfred wrote:
>>>> On 6/1/2021 7:15 PM, David Brown wrote:
>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> The situation we have now is that on a compiler like gcc you can get
>>>>> 128-bit division using __int128, but /not/ using intmax_t.  It is a
>>>>> useless type.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The way I see it this is a problem with gcc, not with the standard.
>>>> Unless the committee managed to produce some wording that is too
>>>> problematic for __int128 to fit as extended integer type.
>>>
>>> Keith has given some replies here.
>>>
>>> There is nothing in the standards that would have prevented gcc making
>>> __int128 as an extended integer type when C99 was introduced.  The
>>> problem is that the definition of intmax_t makes it extremely difficult
>>> to /change/ the type, and therefore to /introduce/ a new larger extended
>>> integer type at a later date.  Once the ABI for a platform has been
>>> decided, intmax_t is fixed and no larger integer types can be introduced
>>> without change and disruption that is well out of proportion for the
>>> gains.
>>>
>>
>> Technically, this is still a problem of the implementation, not of the
>> standard. Granted, implementations and the standard have a long history
>> of going along together, but still they are different things and they
>> work at different levels.
>> I believe you and Keith (his link is indeed instructive) when you say
>> that there are ABI problems with intmax_t, but I am not convinced that
>> they are absolutely objective - I may think there is some weight of the
>> legacy of ABI definitions as they have been structured for decades.
> 
> Legacy and ABI definitions are definitely the issues here, and
> technically these are part of the implementation, rather than the
> standard.  The way the standard defines intmax_t makes it very
> impractical (but not impossible) for implementations to provide larger
> integer types.  I see that as a problem or limitation in the standard,
> rather than an implementation issue.
> 
>> After all, in C passing arguments of varying type is not a new issue -
>> structs have been part of the ABI since the beginning of time.
>>
> 
> Yes, but structs (and arrays) are defined in terms of existing scaler
> types.  ABI's generally do not specify how to pass larger integer types
> - it is not covered by the specification for a struct comprising of two
> smaller types.
> 

As far as I know ABI's do specify how to pass structs (arrays in C are a 
bit different in that they are passed by reference unlike all other types).

The point is that in C there is some provision to pass arguments of 
arbitrary size, both at the level of the standard and of actual 
implementations.
The idea of having a scalar type of arbitrary size is problematic, but 
it is also an opportunity, in my opinion.
In fact one of the few architectural changes in the last couple of 
decades is the increase of word size. So it's not unreasonable that 
looking in perspective the committee wanted to introduce some support 
for 'large' scalars - integers being the obvious choice.
We have seen the demand for such types grow from 8 to 128 bits, 
processor words grow from 8 to 64 bits, and given the increasing demand 
for e.g. cryptography, with the vital role of secure communications 
already today, it makes some sense to envision that these numbers could 
keep growing sooner or later.

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recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 20:46 -0500
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 20:50 -0500
    Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 20:52 -0500
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-25 07:47 +0300
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 12:20 -0500
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2021-05-26 08:36 +0200
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 13:28 -0500
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 12:56 +0200
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-25 14:55 +0000
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-25 18:42 +0300
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve MrSpook_Ann1u@d0v_5eh1bqgd.com - 2021-05-25 16:10 +0000
              Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 18:23 +0200
              Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-25 19:57 +0300
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve MrSpook_ddZgr4t4@okc9_pd48oig5.info - 2021-05-26 07:15 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 09:22 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-26 10:54 +0300
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve MrSpook_dw5lvA4g@kak0_42x.edu - 2021-05-26 08:29 +0000
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Nikolaj Lazic <nlazicBEZ_OVOGA@mudrac.ffzg.hr> - 2021-05-25 16:21 +0000
              Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-25 20:04 +0300
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 12:46 -0500
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-25 20:58 +0300
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 13:48 -0500
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Nikolaj Lazic <nlazicBEZ_OVOGA@mudrac.ffzg.hr> - 2021-05-25 18:23 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 13:49 -0500
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 21:07 -0500
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 18:23 +0200
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 22:33 -0500
    Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 22:35 -0500
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-25 05:16 +0000
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 13:00 +0200
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 12:49 -0500
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 14:08 -0500
    Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-27 21:59 +0000
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 15:33 -0700
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 15:58 -0700
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 18:17 -0500
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 16:58 -0700
              Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-27 18:36 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 21:38 -0500
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-28 08:53 +0300
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2021-05-28 09:47 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 19:54 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-27 21:02 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-28 12:09 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-28 20:26 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-28 17:10 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-29 11:47 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2021-05-30 15:15 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-31 08:33 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2021-05-31 08:21 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-31 18:13 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-31 14:43 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-31 14:44 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2021-05-31 15:20 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 11:17 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-01 20:25 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 16:55 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-02 09:06 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-05 17:50 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-06 11:10 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-06-06 04:07 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-06-06 07:49 -0400
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-01 20:21 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-02 09:29 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-02 18:43 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-02 23:32 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-03 00:49 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-03 09:08 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-03 10:53 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-03 16:20 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-06-03 11:20 -0400
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-03 19:04 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-06-03 22:24 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-06-03 16:27 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-06-04 00:36 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-04 08:46 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-05 22:02 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-06 11:17 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-06 18:39 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-06 16:33 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-07 08:41 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-06 17:46 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve MrSpook_Qfmtjdmi@nc6.com - 2021-06-06 14:11 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-03 16:43 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-01 18:00 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-01 19:15 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-01 15:55 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2021-06-01 13:59 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 13:26 -0500
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-01 08:29 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2021-06-01 14:05 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-01 15:58 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-06-01 11:33 -0400
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 10:52 -0700
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-05-27 23:16 -0400
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-28 14:34 +0000
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 18:19 -0500
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-28 03:47 +0200
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 17:45 -0500
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-28 14:38 +0000
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-28 16:44 +0200
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-28 16:42 +0200
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-28 18:22 +0300
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-28 08:47 +0300
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 06:16 +0200
    Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 13:30 -0500
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 20:37 +0200
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 14:09 -0500
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 18:33 +0200
    Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 13:32 -0500
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2021-05-27 07:50 +0200
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 17:35 -0700

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