Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.c++
Subject	Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve
Date	2021-06-01 19:15 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<s95pus$10s$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(17 earlier) <87v96yy3yr.fsf@nosuchdomain.example.com> <d0fabaf2-7bc4-4297-9989-bfbeb376b8f0n@googlegroups.com> <ihmlopF4ff6U1@mid.individual.net> <s95e8b$a8p$1@dont-email.me> <s95lin$16jr$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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On 01/06/2021 18:00, Manfred wrote:
> On 6/1/2021 3:55 PM, David Brown wrote:
>> On 01/06/2021 13:59, Bo Persson wrote:
>>> On 2021-06-01 at 00:20, daniel...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Monday, May 31, 2021 at 5:43:23 PM UTC-4, Keith Thompson wrote:
>>>>> David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> writes:
>>>>>> On 31/05/2021 00:15, daniel...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> On Saturday, May 29, 2021 at 5:47:50 AM UTC-4, David Brown wrote:
>>>>>>>> The definition of intmax_t is a problem - it is a limitation for
>>>>>>>> integer
>>>>>>>> types in C and C++. Hopefully eventually deprecate intmax_t.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One proposal is to make intmax_t mean int64_t, and leave it at that.
>>>>>>> Have no requirement that integer types can't be larger. No more ABI
>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It might make more sense to tie it to "long long int" rather than
>>>>>> "int64_t", but someone would first have to check if it affected any
>>>>>> real
>>>>>> implementations before making such a change. But yes, that might be a
>>>>>> way out and a way forward.
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> That would allow intmax_t to be 128 bits on implementations with
>>>>> 128-bit long long (are there any?), which seems like a good idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the point of both these proposals is purely for backward
>>>>> compatibility, avoiding breaking code that already uses [u]intmax_t.
>>>>> Both of them destroy the point of intmax_t, providing a type that's
>>>>> guaranteed to be the longest integer type. Should intmax_t be
>>>>> deprecated?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes. "Give me the biggest integer type there is" is not a reasonable
>>>> thing to ask for, in any code that is intended to be portable across
>>>> platforms
>>>> or over time on the same platform. You may as well have intwhatever_t.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The problem is that we in general don't know what "whatever" is. At the
>>> time when intmax_t was introduced, at least in C there were
>>> implementations with 36 bit ints and 72-bit longs. So just using int64_t
>>> would not be portable.
>>>
>>
>> Have there ever been C99 compilers for 36-bit int machines?  Were there
>> even conforming C90 compilers?
>>
>> AFAIK (and I fully admit my knowledge may be lacking), the only systems
>> that made it past the 1980's which did not have two's complement signed
>> integers with 8-bit bytes and power-of-two sized integer types are some
>> DSPs and other niche embedded devices (for which no one would use an
>> integer type without knowing /exactly/ how big it is), and
>> Burroughs/Unisys systems for legacy compatibility.
>>
>> My suggestion would be to lock intmax_t to "long long", which would keep
>> compatibility here (including for systems that have 128-bit long long,
>> if there are any other than a hypothetical RISC-V version).
>>
>>
>>
> 
> I think this would be problematic as well, or at least useless and
> confusing.
> The idea for intmax_t is to give a standard name to the widest integer
> type that is available, which is by definition implementation defined.
> Having intmax_t an alias for "long long" would change its meaning to the
> widest /standard/ integer type defined by the standard itself - a
> useless repetition (we have "long long" for that), and confusing too,
> given its change in meaning.

Yes, that is all true.  The point is not to find another useful purpose
for intmax_t - the point is to get rid of it, marking it as deprecated,
but to do so in a way that won't break existing code.

I am at a loss to understand why anyone would have a use for intmax_t in
the first place.  When would you want an integer type whose sole
characteristic is "big" ?  To me, it is logical to want a type that is
at least N bits, or exactly N bits.  These requirements are covered by
the normal "short", "int", "long" and "long long" types, or - better for
my use, but not necessarily other people's - the <stdint.h> fixed size
types.  "intmax_t" gives you absolutely /nothing/ that "long long" does not.

Given that there are, as far as we know, no implementations where
intmax_t does not correspond directly to "long long", I would like to
see "intmax_t" be dropped to the maximum extent allowable by backwards
compatibility.

> 
> As far as I understand the purpose for intmax_t is to allow for (sort
> of) 'standard' prototypes of functions like imaxabs, imaxdiv, strtoimax,
> etc that are supposed to operate on larger integer types - these are the
> only functions that take this kind of arguments.
> The confusing part is that all of these facilities are implementation
> dependent, so even if they are part of the standard they are /not/
> portable, meaning that the programmer is supposed (the way I see it) to
> use them under the guard of appropriate preprocessor directives.
> 
> The use for them is to allow the programmer to use some optimized
> routines for larger types, if available.

But they don't allow that.  If you are trying to make optimised routines
for larger types, you need to know your sizes - you either use
implementation extensions (like __int128), or fixed size types, or if
you need maximal portability, you use "int_fast64_t".

> 
> For example, in case operations like ldiv are needed on 128 bit
> integers, then IF the implementation supports 128 bit intmax_t then
> imaxdiv can be a better choice rather than implementing your own routine
> - note that /IF/ is the keyword here, that should map directly to
> appropriate #if directives.
> 

The situation we have now is that on a compiler like gcc you can get
128-bit division using __int128, but /not/ using intmax_t.  It is a
useless type.

> It's most probably somewhat a niche field of use (possibly growing due
> to the diffuse demand for cryptography), or meant for applications that
> are supposed to be run on hardware that is known to support the
> appropriate types, so that the #if directives can be as simple as
> denying compilation for implementations that don't have a wide enough
> intmax_t.
> 
> My 2c.

Thread

recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 20:46 -0500
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 20:50 -0500
    Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 20:52 -0500
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-25 07:47 +0300
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 12:20 -0500
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2021-05-26 08:36 +0200
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 13:28 -0500
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 12:56 +0200
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-25 14:55 +0000
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-25 18:42 +0300
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve MrSpook_Ann1u@d0v_5eh1bqgd.com - 2021-05-25 16:10 +0000
              Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 18:23 +0200
              Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-25 19:57 +0300
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve MrSpook_ddZgr4t4@okc9_pd48oig5.info - 2021-05-26 07:15 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 09:22 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-26 10:54 +0300
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve MrSpook_dw5lvA4g@kak0_42x.edu - 2021-05-26 08:29 +0000
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Nikolaj Lazic <nlazicBEZ_OVOGA@mudrac.ffzg.hr> - 2021-05-25 16:21 +0000
              Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-25 20:04 +0300
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 12:46 -0500
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-25 20:58 +0300
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 13:48 -0500
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Nikolaj Lazic <nlazicBEZ_OVOGA@mudrac.ffzg.hr> - 2021-05-25 18:23 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 13:49 -0500
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 21:07 -0500
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 18:23 +0200
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 22:33 -0500
    Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-24 22:35 -0500
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Juha Nieminen <nospam@thanks.invalid> - 2021-05-25 05:16 +0000
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 13:00 +0200
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-25 12:49 -0500
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 14:08 -0500
    Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-27 21:59 +0000
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 15:33 -0700
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 15:58 -0700
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 18:17 -0500
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 16:58 -0700
              Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-27 18:36 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 21:38 -0500
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-28 08:53 +0300
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2021-05-28 09:47 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 19:54 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-27 21:02 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-28 12:09 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-28 20:26 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-05-28 17:10 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-29 11:47 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2021-05-30 15:15 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-31 08:33 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2021-05-31 08:21 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-05-31 18:13 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-31 14:43 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-05-31 14:44 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve "daniel...@gmail.com" <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2021-05-31 15:20 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 11:17 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-01 20:25 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 16:55 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-02 09:06 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-05 17:50 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-06 11:10 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-06-06 04:07 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-06-06 07:49 -0400
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-01 20:21 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-02 09:29 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-02 18:43 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-02 23:32 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-03 00:49 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-03 09:08 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-03 10:53 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-03 16:20 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-06-03 11:20 -0400
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-03 19:04 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-06-03 22:24 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2021-06-03 16:27 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-06-04 00:36 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-04 08:46 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-05 22:02 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-06 11:17 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-06 18:39 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-06 16:33 -0700
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-07 08:41 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-06 17:46 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve MrSpook_Qfmtjdmi@nc6.com - 2021-06-06 14:11 +0000
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-03 16:43 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2021-06-01 18:00 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-01 19:15 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-01 15:55 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2021-06-01 13:59 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 13:26 -0500
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-01 08:29 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2021-06-01 14:05 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-06-01 15:58 +0200
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-06-01 11:33 -0400
                Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 10:52 -0700
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2021-05-27 23:16 -0400
            Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-28 14:34 +0000
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 18:19 -0500
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-28 03:47 +0200
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-27 17:45 -0500
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2021-05-28 14:38 +0000
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-28 16:44 +0200
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-28 16:42 +0200
          Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-28 18:22 +0300
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2021-05-28 08:47 +0300
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 06:16 +0200
    Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 13:30 -0500
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 20:37 +0200
        Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 14:09 -0500
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 18:33 +0200
    Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2021-05-26 13:32 -0500
      Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2021-05-27 07:50 +0200
  Re: recovering from std::bad_alloc in std::string reserve "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2021-06-01 17:35 -0700

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