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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #30467
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.arch.embedded |
| Subject | Re: C++, Ada, ... |
| Date | 2021-04-17 18:45 +0200 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <s5f3c1$s06$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | <s5f01b$4j3$1@dont-email.me> |
On 17/04/2021 17:48, pozz wrote: > What do you think about different languages than usual C for embedded > systems? > > I mean C++, Ada but also Python. Always more powerful embedded > processors are coming, so I expect new and modern languages will enter > in the embedded world. > > Hardware are cheaper and more powerful than ever, but software stays > expensive. New and modern languages could reduce the software cost, > because they are simpler than C and much more similar to desktop/server > programming paradigm. > > We embedded sw developers were lucky: electronics and technologies > change rapidly, but sw for embedded has changed slower than > desktop/mobile sw. Think of mobile app developers: maybe they already > changed IDEs, tools and languages ten times in a few years. > C language for embedded is today very similar than 10 years ago. > > However I think this situation for embedded developers will change in > the very next years. And we will be forced to learn modern technologies, > such as new languages and tools. > Is it ok for me to study and learn new things... but it will be more > difficult to acquire new skills for real jobs. > > What do you think? You should probably add Rust to your list - I think its popularity will increase. Python is great when you have the resources. It's the language I use most on PC's and servers, and it is very common on embedded Linux systems (like Pi's, and industrial equivalents). Micropython is sometimes found on smaller systems, such as ESP32 devices. Ada involves a fair amount of change to how you work, compared to C development. (Disclaimer - I have only done a very small amount of Ada coding, and no serious projects. But I have considered it as an option.) I really don't see it becoming much more common, and outside of niche areas (defence, aerospace) it is very rare. Programming in Ada often takes a lot more effort even for simple things, leading quickly to code that is so wordy that it is unclear what is going on. And most of the advantages of Ada (such as better typing) can be achieved in C++ with less effort, and at the same time C++ can give additional safety on resources that is harder to get on Ada. (But Ada has some nice features introspective that C++ programmers currently only dream about.) C++ is not uncommon in embedded systems, and I expect to see more of it. I use it as my main embedded language now. C++ gives more scope for getting things wrong in weird ways, and more scope for accidentally making your binary massively larger than you expect, but with care it makes it a lot easier to write clear code and safe code, where common C mistakes either can't happen or you get compile-time failures. It used to be the case that C++ compilers were expensive and poor quality, that the resulting code was very slow on common microcontrollers, and that the language didn't have much extra to offer small-systems embedded developers. That, I think, has changed in all aspects. I use gcc 10 with C++17 on Cortex-M devices, and features like templates, strong enumerations, std::array, and controlled automatic conversions make it easier to write good code.
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C++, Ada, ... pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-04-17 17:48 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-17 18:45 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-17 19:55 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-18 12:53 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-04-18 18:48 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-18 18:59 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-04-19 13:51 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-19 14:22 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-04-19 19:16 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-19 22:19 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-04-20 01:03 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2021-04-19 18:09 -0400
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-20 06:58 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2021-04-19 23:18 -0700
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-20 09:36 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2021-04-19 12:20 -0700
Re: C++, Ada, ... Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-04-20 00:26 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2021-04-19 16:01 -0700
Re: C++, Ada, ... Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-04-20 10:47 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-19 23:30 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2021-04-18 08:29 +1000
Re: C++, Ada, ... Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-04-18 10:39 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-18 14:59 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-04-18 19:23 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-18 19:26 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-18 19:29 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-18 22:23 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-18 23:09 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-19 08:56 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-04-19 14:04 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2021-04-19 15:16 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2021-04-19 12:47 -0700
Re: C++, Ada, ... Niklas Holsti <niklas.holsti@tidorum.invalid> - 2021-04-20 00:37 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-20 07:50 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-19 14:26 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-18 19:30 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-18 22:17 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-18 23:17 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-19 08:52 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-19 10:08 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-19 12:15 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-19 12:00 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-04-19 16:15 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-19 15:43 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-04-19 18:38 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2021-04-19 10:48 -0700
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-19 19:33 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2021-04-20 15:09 +0300
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-20 15:29 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-19 22:48 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2021-04-19 23:17 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2021-04-19 15:55 -0700
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-20 08:21 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2021-04-20 08:20 +0200
Re: C++, Ada, ... Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2021-04-17 21:07 -0400
Re: C++, Ada, ... Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2021-04-17 18:53 -0700
Re: C++, Ada, ... Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2021-04-18 09:42 +0100
Re: C++, Ada, ... dalai lamah <antonio12358@hotmail.com> - 2021-04-18 14:39 +0200
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