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Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app

From Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam>
Newsgroups misc.phone.mobile.iphone, comp.mobile.android
Subject Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app
Date 2021-01-13 18:11 -0500
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <rtnum9$i9r$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <rtn28i.3u4.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> <rtn3l4$7oc$1@dont-email.me> <rtn9en.8ec.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net> <rtnb60$3bl$1@dont-email.me> <rtnmi8.9v8.1@ID-201911.user.individual.net>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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On 1/13/2021 2:52 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
> Mayayana <mayayana@invalid.nospam> wrote:
>> "Frank Slootweg" <this@ddress.is.invalid> wrote
>>
>> |  AFAIC, Facebook is a totally different kettle of fish. Facebook is
>> | 'social media' (FSVSVO 'social'). WhatsApp is 'instant messaging'. Not
>> | that you can't be social on WhatsApp - I've been told you can even be
>> | 'social' on NetNews/Usenet :-) -, but WhatsApp (and the likes) is
>> | primarily instant messaging.
>>
>>      Interesting. The one person I know who uses it only
>> uses it to video chat with her sister... I guess I shouldn't
>> ask why in the world you use WA for text messaging on
>> a phone when you could just send a text message.
> 
>    Some main advantages - in no particular order - over SMS are:
>    
>    It's 'free'. It uses the Internet, which is probably 'free' when at
> home, near a Wi-Fi hotspot, etc. or included in people's 'bundle'. (Yes,
> SMS used to be in people's bundle as well, but now not so much as SMS is
> <nospam> obsolete </nospam>.) Also for text messages, the data use is
> very little, think KBs, which - in general - makes IM cheaper than SMS.
> YMMV/YMWV.
> 
>    The app is much more user-friendly than most SMS 'apps'.
> 
>    You can easily communicate in groups. That's not possible with SMS.
> 
>    In *addition* to those main advantages, IM apps/platforms have
> capabilities to include pictures, video, audio, web-content, you name
> it. So it can do loads more than just the plain text which SMS can do.
> 
>>     But it's probably not a problem for you, anyway. The problem
>> is in the US, where Facebook
>> intends to force WA users to Facebook next month. I don't
>> know exactly what that means, but it at least entails giving
>> Facebook -- and their partners -- phone # and so on.
> 
>    I don't know exactly what that means either, but I think it's mainly
> FUD and a way for Facebook to up their diminishing user base. I.e. "We
> now have umpteen zillion Facebook users!" Big fscking deal!
> 
>    With Facebook you can effectively have a 'lurkers' account. You don't
> have to post anything and you don't have to read anything, you just have
> an account (with very little personal info in it (like in my Santa Claus
> Google account :-))). (How do I know that? Because SWMBO has such an
> account so we can follow the kids and grandkids. But that's already
> outdated as well, because Facebook is for oldies, Real People TM are on
> Instagram and whatever.)
> 
>    But enough of this new-fangled stuff. We just had a long phone call -
> you know, such a thingie in which you can speak and can hear the other
> party - on a *fixed* phone. So there's still hope for us/me!
> 
NYTimes By Shira Ovide

There was a backlash to WhatsApp in recent days after it posted what 
appear to be overhauled privacy policies. Let me try to clarify what 
happened.

Some people think the messaging app will now force those using it to 
hand over their personal data to Facebook, which owns WhatsApp.

That’s not quite right.

WhatsApp’s policies changed cosmetically and not in ways that give 
Facebook more data. The bottom line is that Facebook already collects a 
lot of information from what people do on WhatsApp.

The confusion was the result of Facebook’s bungled communications, 
mistrust of the company and America’s broken data-protection laws.

Here’s what changed with WhatsApp, and what didn’t:

Facebook bought WhatsApp in 2014, and since 2016, almost everyone using 
the messaging app has been (usually unknowingly) sharing information 
about their activity with Facebook.

Facebook knows the phone numbers being used, how often the app is 
opened, the resolution of the device screen, the location estimated from 
the internet connection and more, as my colleague Kashmir Hill explained 
five years ago.

Facebook uses this information to make sure WhatsApp works properly and 
to help a shoe company show you an ad on Facebook.

Facebook can’t peer at the content of texts or phone calls because 
WhatsApp communications are scrambled. Facebook also says that it 
doesn’t keep records on whom people are contacting in WhatsApp, and 
WhatsApp contacts aren’t shared with Facebook. (This Wired article is 
also useful.)

WhatsApp has a lot of positives. It’s easy to use, and communications in 
the app are secure. But yes, WhatsApp is Facebook, a company many don’t 
trust.

There are alternatives, including Signal and Telegram — both of which 
have gotten a surge of new users recently. The digital privacy group 
Electronic Frontier Foundation says Signal and WhatsApp are good choices 
for most people. The Wall Street Journal also ran through the pros and 
cons of several popular messaging apps.

The reason WhatsApp recently notified app users about revised privacy 
rules is that Facebook is trying to make WhatsApp a place to chat with 
an airline about a missed flight, browse for handbags and pay for stuff.

WhatsApp’s policies changed to reflect the possibility of commercial 
transactions involving the mingling of activity among Facebook apps — a 
handbag you browse in WhatsApp could pop up later in your Instagram app, 
for example.

Unfortunately, WhatsApp did a terrible job explaining what was new in 
its privacy policy. It took me and Kash, a data-privacy rock star, a 
good amount of reporting to understand.

I also want to touch on deeper reasons for the misunderstandings.

First, this is a hangover of Facebook’s history of being cavalier with 
our personal data and reckless with how it’s used by the company or its 
partners. It’s no wonder that people assumed Facebook changed WhatsApp 
policies in gory ways.

Second, people have come to understand that privacy policies are 
confusing, and we really don’t have power to make companies collect less 
data.

“This is the problem with the nature of privacy law in the United 
States,” Kash said. “As long as they tell you that they’re doing it in a 
policy that you probably don’t read, they can do whatever they want.”

That means digital services including WhatsApp give us an unappealing 
choice. Either we give up control over what happens to our personal 
information, or we don’t use the service. That’s it.

Clearing up more WhatsApp confusion

Another false belief floating around about WhatsApp — and again, this is 
WhatsApp’s fault, not yours — is that the app is just now removing an 
option for people to refuse to share their WhatsApp data with Facebook.

Not quite right.

Yes, when Facebook made major changes to WhatsApp privacy policies in 
2016, there was a brief moment of choice. People could check a box to 
order Facebook not to use their data from WhatsApp for commercial purposes.

Facebook would still collect the data from WhatsApp users, as I 
explained above, but the company would not use the data to “improve its 
ads and product experiences,” like making friend recommendations.

But that option in WhatsApp existed for only 30 days in 2016. That was a 
lifetime ago in digital years, and approximately four million Facebook 
data scandals ago.

For anyone who started using WhatsApp since 2016 — and that’s many 
people — Facebook has been collecting a lot of information without an 
option to refuse.

“A lot of people didn’t know that until now,” Gennie Gebhart of the 
Electronic Frontier Foundation told me. And, she said, we are not to blame.

Understanding what happens with our digital data feels as if it requires 
advanced training in computer science and a law degree. And Facebook, a 
company with oodles of cash and a stock value of more than $700 billion, 
didn’t or couldn’t explain what was happening in a way that people could 
grasp.

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Thread

WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-07 19:25 +0000
  Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app  Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-07 19:32 +0000
    Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-10 14:18 +0000
      Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2021-01-11 21:47 +0100
        Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-11 19:25 -0500
          Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-12 01:48 +0000
            Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-12 02:31 +0000
          Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-01-12 17:02 +0100
            Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-12 14:32 -0500
            Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-12 22:03 +0100
              Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-01-13 10:26 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-13 16:12 +0100
          Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-12 20:07 +0000
            Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-12 22:06 +0100
            Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-12 16:12 -0500
              Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-13 15:02 +0000
            Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-12 19:49 -0500
              Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-13 14:06 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-13 10:29 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-13 16:08 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-13 12:37 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-13 19:52 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> - 2021-01-13 18:11 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 16:20 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 17:27 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 23:48 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 16:18 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 03:36 +1100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 21:22 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2021-01-14 09:41 -0800
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 14:33 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2021-01-14 20:16 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 15:43 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 23:09 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 22:54 -0800
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 19:26 +1100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2021-01-15 09:33 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 18:32 -0800
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2021-01-16 09:56 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> - 2021-01-15 09:32 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 23:20 -0800
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 13:24 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-15 15:41 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 21:30 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-14 20:37 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 17:14 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-14 13:22 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 21:34 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-13 09:44 -0700
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-13 12:42 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app AJL <noemail@none.com> - 2021-01-13 13:49 -0700
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2021-01-13 12:52 -0500
            Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-13 02:36 +0000
              Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-13 16:16 +0100
        Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-12 01:36 +0000
          Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> - 2021-01-12 08:48 +0100
            Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-12 15:38 +0000
              Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Libor Striz <poutnik4REMOVEnntp@gmailCAPITALS.com.INVALID> - 2021-01-14 21:12 +0100
        Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-01-12 16:57 +0100
          Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-12 22:08 +0100
            Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-13 02:36 +0000
              Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-01-13 22:41 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-13 13:44 -0800
            Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> - 2021-01-13 22:38 +0100
              Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 02:51 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Savageduck <savageduck1@removespam.me.com> - 2021-01-13 20:31 -0600
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Bernd Froehlich <befr@eaglesoft.de> - 2021-01-14 08:06 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 15:35 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-14 14:51 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 14:33 +1100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 14:34 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2021-01-15 03:29 +1100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 22:59 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app sms <scharf.steven@geemail.com> - 2021-01-14 16:43 -0800
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-15 03:33 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-15 16:03 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2021-01-16 05:55 +1100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 13:28 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 14:51 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-14 15:16 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2021-01-14 19:56 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid> - 2021-01-14 13:55 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Arlen Holder <arlen_holder@newmachines.com> - 2021-01-14 15:12 +0000
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@air.isp.spam> - 2021-01-14 16:29 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 17:26 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-14 23:38 +0100
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Mayayana" <mayayana@invalid.nospam> - 2021-01-14 20:22 -0500
                Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2021-01-15 03:38 +0100
          Re: WhatsApp gives users an ultimatum: Share data with Facebook or stop using the app "s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> - 2021-01-13 22:54 +0100

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