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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #70528

Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh

From "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh
Date 2019-12-16 19:42 -0800
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <qt9ir4$192j$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (6 earlier) <2a6b4b2d-283f-4b5f-9f4c-025efaa087a8@googlegroups.com> <qt7g4h$2l0$1@dont-email.me> <ZuKJF.5231$v04.64@fx35.am4> <qt87dl$8tk$1@dont-email.me> <h0dfve5mb6hldeb4agjr248gs6oslba8rq@4ax.com>

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On 12/16/2019 8:54 AM, Robert Wessel wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Dec 2019 16:21:25 +0100, David Brown
> <david.brown@hesbynett.no> wrote:
> 
>> On 16/12/2019 13:10, Bart wrote:
>>> On 16/12/2019 08:44, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 16/12/2019 06:43, Öö Tiib wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, 16 December 2019 07:36:32 UTC+2, Daniel  wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, December 16, 2019 at 12:23:39 AM UTC-5, Öö Tiib wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> May be it is not about standard but about compiler makers who provide
>>>>>>> 128 bit integers that are not conformant with std::int128_t.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know any compilers that have std::128_t. gcc and clang have
>>>>>> __int128,
>>>>>> but std::numeric_limits<__int128> is only defined if compiled with e.g.
>>>>>> -std=gnu++11 and not -std=c++11.
>>>>>
>>>>> So don't I know of any. All compilers implement 128 bit integers as
>>>>> non-standard extensions.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are technical - but currently unavoidable - reasons why compilers
>>>> don't provide a full 128-bit integer type.  One of these is that if
>>>> 64-bit gcc were to provide a 128-bit extended integer type (using the C
>>>> and C++ technical term "extended integer type"), then "maxint_t" would
>>>> have to be that type rather than "long long int".  This would have a
>>>> knock-on effect on ABI's, libraries, headers, etc., which would be out
>>>> of the question.  Other complications involve support for literals of
>>>> the type.
>>>
>>> You mean that even when int128 types are built-in, there is no support
>>> for 128-bit constants? And presumably not for output either, according
>>> to my tests with gcc and g++:
>>>
>>>      __int128_t a;
>>>      a=170141183460469231731687303715884105727;
>>>      std::cout << a;
>>>
>>> The constant overflows, and if I skip that part, I get pages of errors
>>> when trying to print it. On gcc, I have no idea what printf format to use.
>>>
>>
>> There is no printf support for 128-bit integers, except for systems
>> where "long long" is 128-bit.  (Or, hypothetically, 128-bit "long",
>> "int", "short" or "char".)  As you know full well, gcc does not have
>> printf, since gcc is a compiler and printf is from the standard library.
>>
>>> This is frankly astonishing with such a big and important language, and
>>> with comprehensive compilers such as gcc and g++. Even my own 'toy'
>>> language can do this:
>>
>> It is only astonishing if you don't understand what it means for a
>> language to have a standard.  It's easy to do this with a toy language
>> (and that is an advantage of toy languages).  It would not be
>> particularly difficult for the gcc or clang developers to support it
>> either.  But the ecosystem around C is huge - you can't change the
>> standard in a way that breaks compatibility, which is what would have to
>> happen to make these types full integer types.
>>
>> I am not convinced that there is any great reason for having full
>> support for 128-bit types here - how often do you really need them?
>> There are plenty of use-cases for big integers, such as in cryptography,
>> but then 128-bit is not nearly big enough.  And for situations where
>> 128-bit integers are useful, how often do you need literals of that size?
>>
>> With C++, it would not be difficult to put together a class that acts
>> like a 128-bit integer type for most purposes - including support for
>> literals and std::cout.  Consider it a challenge to test your C++ knowledge.
>>
>>>
>>>      int128 a := 170'141'183'460'469'231'731'687'303'715'884'105'727
>>>
>>>      println a
>>>      println a:"hs'"
>>>      println word128.maxvalue             # (ie. uint128)
>>>
>>> Output is:
>>>
>>>      170141183460469231731687303715884105727
>>>      7fff'ffff'ffff'ffff'ffff'ffff'ffff'ffff
>>>      340282366920938463463374607431768211455
>>>
>>> What exactly is the problem with allowing 128-bit constants at least?
>>>
>>> (My implementation is by no means complete (eg. 128/128 is missing, it
>>> does 128/64), but it can do most of the basics and I just need to get
>>> around to filling in the gaps.
>>>
>>> It will also have arbitrary precision decimal integers /and/ floats
>>> (another thing that was mentioned as missing from core C++), which I'm
>>> working on this month. That will have constant and output support too:
>>>
>>>     a := 123.456e1000'000L
>>>     println a
>>>
>>> So mere 128-bit integer-only support is trivial!)
>>
>> Arbitrary precision arithmetic is, I think, a lot more useful than
>> 128-bit integers.  But it would be well outside the scope of C.  It
>> would be more reasonable to implement them it in a C++ library, but it
>> is questionable whether it makes sense for the standard library.  After
>> all, there are many ways to implement arbitrary precision arithmetic
>> with significantly different trade-offs in terms of speed, run-time
>> memory efficiency, code space efficiency, and how these match with the
>> type of usage you want for them.
> 
> 
> Trivially, arbitrary precision arithmetic is more useful than 128-bit
> integers, in that the format can do everything the latter can do, and
> more.
> 
> On the other hand, a proper bignum library will almost always carry a
> substantial performance penalty compared to fixed 128-bit integers.
> Consider that on x86-64 a typical add/subtract/compare reduces to two
> instructions (ignoring data movement), and a multiply to about three
> multiplies and two adds (division being the usual PITA).
> 
> On the third hand, 128-bit integers allow a number of things that
> 64-bit integers don't - a useful type in which to perform currency
> calculations, usefully wide (and precise) times, and the like.
> 
> Personally I think both 128-bit types and arbitrary precision
> arithmetic should be part of the language (whether in the language
> proper or the library).
> 

I would not object to C/C++ supporting a standard bignum lib.

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Don't be fooled by cpp.sh woodbrian77@gmail.com - 2019-12-13 21:28 -0800
  Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-14 09:23 +0000
    Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2019-12-14 17:19 +0000
      Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-14 09:54 -0800
        Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh woodbrian77@gmail.com - 2019-12-14 12:00 -0800
          Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-14 13:51 -0800
            Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-14 22:19 +0000
              Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-14 16:13 -0800
              Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-12-15 15:35 +0000
        Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-14 22:17 +0000
          Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-14 16:03 -0800
            Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-15 15:41 +1300
              Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-14 22:55 -0800
            Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-15 09:53 +0000
              Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-15 11:18 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-15 16:44 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-15 20:49 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-15 15:11 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-15 23:28 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-15 15:41 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-16 05:18 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-16 10:46 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-16 09:57 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-16 10:21 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-17 09:37 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-17 15:13 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-17 14:12 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-17 19:35 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-18 16:14 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-17 08:32 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-18 16:26 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-12-18 19:11 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-18 11:23 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-18 11:31 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-12-18 19:56 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-19 08:42 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-12-19 20:26 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-20 09:25 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-20 04:35 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-20 16:28 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-20 10:36 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-21 16:33 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-21 09:11 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-21 17:22 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-21 10:18 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2019-12-21 21:21 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-21 14:30 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2019-12-22 21:36 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-22 15:05 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-22 17:03 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.removethisbit.co.uk> - 2019-12-22 17:46 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-22 18:07 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-23 16:23 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.removethisbit.co.uk> - 2019-12-23 16:33 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-23 16:46 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-23 18:51 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-23 17:02 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-23 19:17 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-24 09:49 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-24 02:16 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-25 00:30 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-26 09:46 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-26 16:38 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-26 17:33 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-26 19:52 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-27 17:14 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-27 09:41 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-28 12:05 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2019-12-28 21:01 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-29 09:00 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-29 12:21 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-29 18:30 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-29 21:45 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-30 10:10 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-30 14:03 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-30 12:17 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-30 04:39 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-30 13:01 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-30 15:17 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-30 14:22 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-30 16:49 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-30 17:18 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-30 18:12 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-30 18:16 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-30 18:38 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-30 19:17 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-30 20:55 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 03:13 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-31 13:01 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 13:13 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-31 14:09 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 14:12 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-31 15:39 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 15:45 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-31 15:22 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 17:16 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-31 17:51 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 17:59 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-31 18:21 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 18:35 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-31 18:51 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 18:59 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-31 12:23 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 16:14 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 16:52 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-31 18:58 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 18:00 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-31 19:21 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-31 18:22 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 18:46 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-31 20:30 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 19:44 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 08:10 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-11 13:03 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-12 07:50 +1300
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-11 11:55 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-11 23:59 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-01 23:04 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-01-04 20:04 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-01-05 13:36 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-06 18:39 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 16:16 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-31 17:01 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-01 17:34 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-01 23:09 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 03:29 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-30 19:37 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2019-12-31 11:19 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-31 13:14 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 16:06 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-30 05:39 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-30 16:39 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-31 09:25 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-31 12:00 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-31 16:10 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-31 16:42 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-01 09:07 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-01 15:48 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-02 09:24 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-02 12:02 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-02 10:52 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-02 13:27 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-02 16:45 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2020-01-02 16:55 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-02 17:24 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-01-02 18:30 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-03 09:40 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-02 22:58 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-02 22:28 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-02 22:56 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-02 22:20 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-03 14:53 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-03 17:22 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-04 12:45 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-03 09:01 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-03 10:29 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-03 21:05 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 08:46 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-10 09:51 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 14:59 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-31 19:06 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-31 14:06 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-31 13:38 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-31 16:13 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.removethisbit.co.uk> - 2019-12-31 17:06 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-01 09:09 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-31 18:11 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-01 09:13 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-01 09:09 -0600
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-02 09:25 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-03 10:09 -0600
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-04 12:43 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-04 18:02 -0600
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-05 10:41 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-05 12:31 -0600
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-05 20:11 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-05 11:22 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-05 21:07 -0600
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-05 20:40 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-06 18:08 -0600
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-06 23:17 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-07 08:37 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 14:51 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-07 08:28 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 14:19 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-01 23:15 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-02 09:33 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-02 12:16 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2019-12-31 18:14 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 19:16 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2019-12-31 18:48 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-31 12:29 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-01 09:17 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-30 16:32 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-12-30 14:57 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-31 09:23 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-12-30 22:16 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-12-30 20:30 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 21:12 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-12-30 20:07 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-30 13:50 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2020-01-01 08:11 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-02 09:28 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 21:26 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2019-12-29 11:31 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-29 18:35 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.removethisbit.co.uk> - 2019-12-29 18:40 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-30 10:12 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-30 14:10 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-29 12:11 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-29 22:20 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-30 01:23 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2019-12-30 15:54 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.removethisbit.co.uk> - 2019-12-30 17:07 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2019-12-30 19:58 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2019-12-30 23:59 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-30 21:23 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-28 18:09 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibble@i42.removethisbit.co.uk> - 2019-12-26 18:30 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-27 17:17 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-27 09:58 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-28 12:06 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-28 08:39 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.org - 2019-12-28 16:57 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Pavel <pauldontspamtolk@removeyourself.dontspam.yahoo> - 2020-01-02 23:18 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2019-12-26 10:54 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-26 22:50 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-26 10:38 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh woodbrian77@gmail.com - 2019-12-24 17:52 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-24 23:53 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh woodbrian77@gmail.com - 2019-12-25 08:51 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-25 10:54 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh woodbrian77@gmail.com - 2019-12-21 08:42 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-21 09:25 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-18 11:28 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-12-18 20:00 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-12-18 22:12 +0200
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-19 08:47 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-12-30 14:03 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-18 09:47 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-18 11:49 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-18 12:05 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-18 12:19 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-12-16 21:13 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-17 09:38 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-12-17 09:14 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-12-17 17:50 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-16 09:35 +0100
              Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Mr Flibble <flibbleREMOVETHISBIT@i42.co.uk> - 2019-12-15 20:48 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-16 09:55 +0000
            Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-12-15 11:12 +0000
            Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-15 06:53 -0800
              Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-15 16:48 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-15 09:10 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-15 18:33 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-12-15 19:29 +0000
              Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-12-15 23:38 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-15 21:23 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-15 21:36 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-15 21:43 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-16 09:44 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-12-16 12:10 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-16 16:21 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-12-16 10:54 -0600
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 10:47 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-16 11:19 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-16 21:15 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 22:23 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-17 09:31 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-12-16 23:23 -0600
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2019-12-16 21:45 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2019-12-16 23:20 -0600
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2019-12-17 21:56 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 22:06 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 19:42 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 11:56 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-16 21:18 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-12-16 21:03 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-17 00:04 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-12-17 01:06 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-17 14:51 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-12-16 07:25 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-12-16 14:13 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-16 16:32 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 10:52 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-16 21:24 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-16 10:56 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-12-16 20:45 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-16 22:00 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-12-17 04:07 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-17 15:00 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-12-17 14:44 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-17 15:54 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-12-17 15:52 +0000
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2019-12-17 11:51 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-17 22:10 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2019-12-17 22:08 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-12-18 08:56 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 08:29 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-12-17 23:55 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-18 09:36 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 22:29 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-12-16 22:40 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-12-16 07:17 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-15 21:24 -0800
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-12-16 12:13 +0100
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-12-16 07:44 -0500
                Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 18:53 -0800
          Re: Don't be fooled by cpp.sh boltar@nowhere.co.uk - 2019-12-15 09:49 +0000

csiph-web