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Groups > comp.lang.c > #148236
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c |
| Subject | Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? |
| Date | 2019-11-13 17:01 +0100 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <qqh9dd$lo3$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <lnbltg32fc.fsf@kst-u.example.com> <qqgk1g$pq1$1@dont-email.me> <E8SyF.324056$NI41.13621@fx12.am4> <qqguti$n3d$1@dont-email.me> <WITyF.3176$XV5.2873@fx15.am4> |
On 13/11/2019 14:40, Bart wrote:
> On 13/11/2019 13:02, David Brown wrote:
>> On 13/11/2019 12:53, Bart wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I don't support VLAs. For one because I don't agree with the feature
>>> (imagine using a function like malloc for a memory pool 0.1% of the size
>>> of what is available to malloc, but with no way to check the result).
>>
>> And with 0.1% of the run-time cost of malloc...
>
> No, malloc isn't 1000 times as slow. I rigged up DFS's mergesort program
> from 7-11-19 to deliver a measurable time. With VLAs it was 1.1 seconds
> to 1.4 seconds using malloc, unoptimised; with -O3 then using VLAs was
> double the speed.
>
> But the problem reported was that it was crashing above 500K elements,
> because the stack limit was being reached. So heap memory had to be used
> anyway, for the cases that would also take longer to execute.
>
Why do you think that is relevant? What is it about the OP's posts that
suggests he wants to handle such large lists of numbers? What makes you
think it is better to be able to work with 500 K lists, while still
failing with 500 M lists dues to lack of heap?
The point is, VLA's are perfectly good here. They are a tool in the
toolbox - use them when they make sense. As with /every/ tool, they
have limitations, but you don't need to invent problems.
>
>>
>> (And rounded to the nearest percent, no one checks the success or
>> failure of malloc and sensibly handles failure smoothly. In almost any
>> software on a PC, a malloc failure means a program crash with a more or
>> less unfriendly error. A VLA allocation failure will give the same
>> result.)
>
>
> I've seen malloc failures, which are usually to do with bugs in the
> logic than actually being out of memory.
>
> Take these two functions:
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> void* checkedmalloc(long long int n) {
> void* p;
> p = malloc(n);
> if (p == NULL) {
> puts("Malloc failure");
> exit(1);
> }
> return p;
> }
>
> void uncheckedvla(long long int n) {
> int A[n];
> memset(A,0,n*sizeof(n));
> }
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Call checkedmalloc() with a rogue value of -1, it will fail gracefully.
> Call uncheckedvla(-1), it will crash.
>
So don't do that. Then your invented problem disappears.
> Now call checkedmalloc(100000000), it will most likely work, but if not
> it will fail gracefully. Call uncheckedvla(25000000) (for same number of
> bytes), it will crash. Unless you have an unusually large stack allocated.
>
Call checkedmalloc(100000000000) and there is a fair chance it will fail
/ungracefully/ - depending on your OS and your computer, it might
happily allocate all your ram and start chewing up your harddisk for
virtual memory space, with your computer grinding to a crawl and being
so slow it is barely even possible to kill the program.
uncheckedvla with the same parameter would die quickly and harmlessly.
If you do stupid things in your program, bad things happen. Anyone who
thinks malloc is safer than a VLA because it returns 0 on allocation
failure, is kidding themselves. They have completely misunderstood how
to write safe and reliable code.
> (Stack sizes per task tend to be 1-8MB. Total main memory might be
> 1000-32000MB. On PCs anyway.)
>
>
>
>
>
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OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-12 15:55 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-12 21:20 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-12 23:28 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 10:52 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-13 10:16 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 16:53 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 11:18 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-12 23:30 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-15 05:12 +1300
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 16:34 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-15 10:07 +1300
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 22:25 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-15 12:02 +1300
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 23:27 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-15 19:06 +1300
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-15 10:45 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-15 13:28 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-15 12:58 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-15 15:39 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-15 15:04 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-15 12:19 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2019-11-15 09:46 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-15 18:59 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-16 11:59 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-16 09:02 +1300
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-15 11:17 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2019-11-15 21:38 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-14 11:44 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-14 18:11 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-14 13:33 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-15 01:49 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-11-14 10:38 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-14 12:56 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-14 13:50 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-14 14:42 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-14 15:25 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-11-14 11:03 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-14 16:08 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-15 11:30 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-15 11:17 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-15 17:35 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-15 17:39 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-15 23:19 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-15 18:53 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-15 19:08 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-16 01:30 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-16 07:39 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-16 07:37 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-15 09:46 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-15 12:38 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2019-11-15 23:07 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 16:54 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-28 20:17 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-29 06:08 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 20:45 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-14 10:10 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 20:19 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-12 23:57 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 10:34 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? DFS <nospam@dfs.com> - 2019-11-13 23:57 -0500
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-11-13 23:00 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ike Naar <ike@sdf.lonestar.org> - 2019-11-14 07:53 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? guinness.tony@gmail.com - 2019-11-14 02:34 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 10:01 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 11:27 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 12:46 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 12:01 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 14:05 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Barry Schwarz <schwarzb@delq.com> - 2019-11-12 18:34 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-12 19:01 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 17:08 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 17:06 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 19:11 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-15 05:15 +1300
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 18:13 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-14 20:16 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 20:03 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-15 04:51 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2019-11-14 10:15 -0800
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 20:52 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 10:57 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-13 23:23 +1300
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 11:53 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 14:02 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 13:40 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 17:01 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 16:28 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-13 22:49 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 22:38 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-13 23:06 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 10:10 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 10:42 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 12:53 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 12:28 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-14 14:21 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2019-11-14 14:28 +0000
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-14 15:38 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-14 13:37 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-14 13:38 +0100
Re: OT: improve this simple algorithm? Thiago Adams <thiago.adams@gmail.com> - 2019-11-13 05:21 -0800
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