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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #69578

Re: two's complement idea

From Manfred <noname@add.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: two's complement idea
Date 2019-11-05 22:48 +0100
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <qpsqng$2bj$1@gioia.aioe.org> (permalink)
References (2 earlier) <fb41f203-289c-40f5-b667-3866bcf4d351@googlegroups.com> <qprfhd$2r5$1@dont-email.me> <f79803ae-7c19-41d3-8f0c-e8dab4b29bca@googlegroups.com> <qpsf62$drr$1@gioia.aioe.org> <6517f0d3-959c-45b7-8125-6ddd6111ec22@googlegroups.com>

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On 11/5/2019 8:55 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 20:31:45 UTC+2, Manfred  wrote:
>> On 11/5/19 6:02 PM, Öö Tiib wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 11:31:39 UTC+2, David Brown  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> When people can't agree, and when every option has its advantages and
>>>> disadvantages, the only rational solution is to give people an explicit
>>>> choice.
>>
>> Except when giving a choice complicates the matter more than the
>> benefits it can give.
>>   From this perspective I like compiler flags more than adding new source
>> code constructs. Maybe because I think that signed wrapping, unlike
>> unsigned, is of no practical use.
>>
>>>
>>> There are lot of aspects that majority of people involved seem to
>>> agree with.
>>
>> I, for one, find some of them questionable.
>>
>>>
>>> * on majority of cases overflow (even unsigned) is programming error
>> That's my first - unsigned wrapping /can/ be useful in some contexts. I
>> can't say if it is about the majority of cases, but it is enough to keep
>> it in place.
> 
> Perhaps here is some difference in meaning of word "majority".
> For me "majority" means "more than 50% of all". Also "all" is
> all such operations in code base. You seem to express disagreement
> with something else.
My point is about what to do with the fact that many times overflow is a 
programming error: even if this is true I think that unsigned overflow 
should have defined behavior (and wrap) rather than being handled as an 
error by the compiler.

> 
>>> * trap (overflow that signals or throws) helps to find programming
>>>      errors most reliably and quickly
>> I would say it is a better debugging aid than nothing, but as
>> reliability goes it can only catch what is executed, and it is often
>> impossible to test all possible combinations at runtime. On the other
>> hand, it would degrade efficiency to a possibly unacceptable level (As
>> Scott pointed out).
> 
> To disagree you need to tell what helps to find programming errors
> involving arithmetic overflow more reliably and quickly.
> Also about efficiency that would move compiler optimization developers
> to right direction.
> Instead of logic that it is up to programmer to ensure that here is
> no overflow so if here is then this code can be erased
> they would try to prove that overflow is impossible themselves so they
> can erase the codes and not to generate trapping checks.
> 
>>> * wrap (overflow with modular arithmetic) can be used intentionally
>>>      and efficiently in some algorithms
>>> * snap (overflow that results with saturating nan) is good when
>>>      damaged, disconnected or short circuited (temperature?) sensor
>>>      should not turn our device (airplane?) into brick
>> I am not sure bout this.
>> Floating point arithmetic does something of the kind (NaN propagates
>> through), but I think that if it is about a sensor failure, and
>> especially if it is about safety, then the hardware itself or the device
>> driver should handle this properly, i.e. with specific error conditions,
>> rather than the language.
> 
> Physically damaged, disconnected or short-circuited temperature sensor
> can no way repair or reconnect itself. 
Undoubtedly, but that's not what I wrote.

So the software of device that
> has such sensor has to work with NaNs for currently measured temperature
> or has to turn into brick. There are nothing else to do.
> Hardware like that of T-1000 from Terminator-2 is not yet invented.
No need to call in Schwarzenegger for help.
My point is that rather than using NaNs the hardware or driver should 
raise specific error signals (like some error code on the control I/O 
port, or at the API level) instead.

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Thread

two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-04 20:48 +0100
  Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-04 21:19 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-04 14:39 -0800
      Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 10:31 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 11:23 +0100
          Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 15:43 +0100
            Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 16:58 +0100
              Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-05 21:45 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 13:33 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 13:51 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 14:37 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 15:38 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 15:53 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-06 10:06 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 17:00 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 17:47 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 17:54 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-11-06 20:00 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 20:13 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 20:44 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 20:36 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 22:54 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-07 00:52 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-06 17:54 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 18:15 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 18:33 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-06 10:55 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 20:15 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 20:53 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-06 22:25 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 23:05 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-07 10:23 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 22:20 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-06 22:12 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-09 06:24 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-11-09 07:14 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-10 11:52 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-10 16:31 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-11-10 19:02 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-11 12:08 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-11-11 13:59 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-11 17:09 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-18 07:40 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 12:27 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea cdalten@gmail.com - 2020-01-24 05:39 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-24 17:53 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-24 17:31 +0000
              Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 21:48 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 07:08 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 09:30 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 09:57 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-05 09:02 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-11-05 17:15 +0000
            Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-05 10:19 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-11-05 19:31 +0100
            Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-05 11:55 -0800
              Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-05 22:48 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-05 15:49 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-09 06:13 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-11-10 18:37 +0100
            Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 23:14 +0100
          Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 23:00 +0100
            Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-06 05:26 -0800
              Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 21:50 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-08 02:01 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-08 14:03 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-08 12:08 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-10 13:17 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-11-10 14:37 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-10 17:08 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-11-10 18:34 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-11 07:48 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-10 21:31 +0100
  Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-11-04 23:55 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 10:32 +0100
  Re: two's complement idea Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-11-04 19:55 -0700
    Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 05:52 +0100
      Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-05 18:17 +1300
      Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-09 05:55 -0800
        Re: two's complement idea Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-11-09 06:33 -0700
          Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-09 07:46 -0800
        Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-09 06:46 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 12:19 -0800
            Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-11-29 00:14 +0100
              Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 09:15 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-11-29 10:58 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 12:49 +0100
              Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-12-07 07:53 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-07 08:22 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 20:44 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-10 23:44 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-14 07:08 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-14 08:42 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-21 02:09 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-21 05:14 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2020-01-21 13:08 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-22 00:07 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-21 23:21 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 01:51 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-22 11:28 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 11:52 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-22 04:47 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 07:19 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-02 08:07 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-21 16:44 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-21 20:01 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-22 11:26 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2020-01-22 20:04 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 11:30 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2020-01-22 19:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-23 10:03 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-23 09:24 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-24 07:29 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-23 10:03 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2020-01-23 10:09 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-23 09:29 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 01:08 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-24 12:27 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 01:06 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2020-01-24 10:07 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-24 11:36 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-24 17:34 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-24 17:57 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 12:19 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2020-01-24 14:19 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 14:11 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-24 17:26 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 17:35 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-24 22:27 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-24 23:21 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-25 11:06 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-24 22:12 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-24 23:24 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-25 09:04 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-25 04:15 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 19:55 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 00:05 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 01:19 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-25 19:50 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 11:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2020-01-25 13:42 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 14:58 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 07:58 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:34 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-25 12:41 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-26 16:08 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 02:20 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-27 15:03 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-15 06:44 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-03-06 10:18 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 07:05 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-04-02 20:03 +0300
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-04 12:37 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 07:45 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 19:56 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 09:49 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 21:33 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 11:00 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 22:23 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 11:46 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-26 10:55 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-26 03:47 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 01:28 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-25 22:22 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-25 18:24 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 12:54 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 12:44 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 14:58 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 14:53 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 19:10 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 13:20 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 20:51 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 21:02 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-26 19:06 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-27 18:50 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 14:18 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-27 22:13 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-27 21:38 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 19:37 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-27 19:15 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2020-01-28 11:45 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-27 16:31 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-01-26 18:50 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-26 18:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 20:46 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 13:14 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 22:15 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 21:06 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-28 13:08 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 01:50 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-27 08:21 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:14 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:12 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 07:48 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-02-18 18:46 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-09 17:03 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 06:56 +0100
      Re: two's complement idea Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2019-11-05 08:24 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 08:35 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-04 23:36 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-05 09:19 -0500
  Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 08:32 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 09:23 +0100
      Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 14:20 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2020-01-22 13:37 +0000
      Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 01:17 -0800
        Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2020-01-27 12:35 +0100
          Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-15 05:56 -0800
            Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2020-02-16 09:17 +0100
              Re: two's complement idea Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-02-21 19:35 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2020-02-22 07:01 +0100
              Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-24 08:22 -0800
      Re: two's complement idea cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2020-02-24 03:12 +0000
        Re: two's complement idea cdalten@gmail.com - 2020-02-24 05:53 -0800
        Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-25 07:56 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2020-02-25 22:00 +0000
            Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-25 16:14 -0800
              Re: two's complement idea cdalten@gmail.com - 2020-02-25 18:18 -0800
              Re: two's complement idea cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2020-02-26 02:22 +0000

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