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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #69579

Re: two's complement idea

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: two's complement idea
Date 2019-11-05 23:00 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <qpsrd4$tr3$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <qppva0$cbj$1@news.albasani.net> <qpq152$88v$1@news.albasani.net> <fb41f203-289c-40f5-b667-3866bcf4d351@googlegroups.com> <qprfhd$2r5$1@dont-email.me> <f79803ae-7c19-41d3-8f0c-e8dab4b29bca@googlegroups.com>

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On 05/11/2019 18:02, Öö Tiib wrote:
> On Tuesday, 5 November 2019 11:31:39 UTC+2, David Brown  wrote:
>>
>> When people can't agree, and when every option has its advantages and
>> disadvantages, the only rational solution is to give people an explicit
>> choice.
> 
> There are lot of aspects that majority of people involved seem to
> agree with.
> 
> * on majority of cases overflow (even unsigned) is programming error

Agreed.

> * trap (overflow that signals or throws) helps to find programming
>     errors most reliably and quickly

Agreed (where "trap" could mean any kind of notification, exception, 
error log, etc.).  But this is something you might only want during 
debugging - it is of significant efficiency cost.

> * wrap (overflow with modular arithmetic) can be used intentionally
>     and efficiently in some algorithms

It is occasionally, but rarely, useful.

> * snap (overflow that results with saturating nan) is good when
>     damaged, disconnected or short circuited (temperature?) sensor
>     should not turn our device (airplane?) into brick

Saturation in general can be useful.

> * compiler assuming that overflow not occurring is ensured by some
>     external logic may allow noteworthy optimizations

Agreed.

> * efficiency is of low importance for lot of code

Agreed.

> * efficiency of C++ is one of its design goals

Agreed.

> * it is good when programmer's intention can be indicated in code

Agreed.


A couple of other options that I didn't mention before for overflows are:

* NaN (signalling or quiet), so that you can do long calculations and 
then check at the end if it worked.

* Unspecified value - the overflow will give a valid int (or whatever 
type is in use) value, but the compiler gives no information about what 
the value might be.  This can be useful when you can detect something 
has failed, and return (valid, value) pairs.  It will allow the compiler 
to take shortcuts and simplify calculations but not allow undefined 
behaviour to "move" forwards or backwards.

> 
> So if to think of it then it is large puzzle indeed how to resolve it
> elegantly and it continues to be bad to leave it all up to
> implementations to decide and then each developer to struggle
> with it on his own with "this standard imposes no requirements".
> 
> I myself would like most current operators to trap on overflow
> (by raising SIGFPE or throwing std::overflow_error) both for
> signed and unsigned.

I like that in debugging or finding problems - with tools like 
sanitizers.  But I would not want that in normal code.  With this kind 
of semantics, the compiler can't even simplify "x + 1 - 1" to "x".  I 
much prefer to be able to write code in whatever way is simplest, 
clearest or most maintainable for /me/, knowing that the compiler will 
turn it into the most efficient results.  I intentionally use an 
optimising compiler for C and C++ programming - when efficiency doesn't 
matter, I'll program in Python where integers grow to avoid overflow.

> For wrap, snap and "compiler may assume that the operation
> does not overflow" cases I would like new operators.
> 

I suggested new types for the different behaviour, but of course it is 
the operations that have the behaviour, not the types.  However, I can't 
see a convenient way to specify overflow behaviour on operations - using 
types is the best balance between flexibility and legible code.

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Thread

two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-04 20:48 +0100
  Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-04 21:19 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-04 14:39 -0800
      Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 10:31 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 11:23 +0100
          Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 15:43 +0100
            Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 16:58 +0100
              Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-05 21:45 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 13:33 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 13:51 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 14:37 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 15:38 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 15:53 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-06 10:06 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 17:00 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 17:47 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 17:54 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-11-06 20:00 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 20:13 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 20:44 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 20:36 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 22:54 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-07 00:52 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-06 17:54 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 18:15 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 18:33 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-06 10:55 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 20:15 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 20:53 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-06 22:25 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-06 23:05 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-07 10:23 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 22:20 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-06 22:12 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-09 06:24 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-11-09 07:14 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-10 11:52 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-10 16:31 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-11-10 19:02 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-11 12:08 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-11-11 13:59 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2019-11-11 17:09 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2019-11-18 07:40 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 12:27 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea cdalten@gmail.com - 2020-01-24 05:39 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-24 17:53 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-24 17:31 +0000
              Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 21:48 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 07:08 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 09:30 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-06 09:57 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-05 09:02 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2019-11-05 17:15 +0000
            Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-05 10:19 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-11-05 19:31 +0100
            Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-05 11:55 -0800
              Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2019-11-05 22:48 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-05 15:49 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-09 06:13 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-11-10 18:37 +0100
            Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 23:14 +0100
          Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 23:00 +0100
            Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-06 05:26 -0800
              Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-06 21:50 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-08 02:01 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-08 14:03 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-08 12:08 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-10 13:17 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-11-10 14:37 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-10 17:08 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@invalid.add> - 2019-11-10 18:34 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-11 07:48 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-10 21:31 +0100
  Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-11-04 23:55 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-05 10:32 +0100
  Re: two's complement idea Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-11-04 19:55 -0700
    Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 05:52 +0100
      Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2019-11-05 18:17 +1300
      Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-09 05:55 -0800
        Re: two's complement idea Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2019-11-09 06:33 -0700
          Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-09 07:46 -0800
        Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-09 06:46 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-11-28 12:19 -0800
            Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2019-11-29 00:14 +0100
              Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 09:15 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2019-11-29 10:58 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2019-11-29 12:49 +0100
              Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2019-12-07 07:53 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-12-07 08:22 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-10 20:44 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-10 23:44 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-14 07:08 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-14 08:42 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-21 02:09 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-21 05:14 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Daniel <danielaparker@gmail.com> - 2020-01-21 13:08 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-22 00:07 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-21 23:21 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 01:51 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-22 11:28 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 11:52 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-22 04:47 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 07:19 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-04-02 08:07 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-21 16:44 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-21 20:01 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-22 11:26 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2020-01-22 20:04 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 11:30 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2020-01-22 19:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-23 10:03 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-23 09:24 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-24 07:29 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-23 10:03 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2020-01-23 10:09 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-23 09:29 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 01:08 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea boltar@nowhere.org - 2020-01-24 12:27 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 01:06 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2020-01-24 10:07 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-24 11:36 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-24 17:34 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Siri Cruise <chine.bleu@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-24 17:57 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 12:19 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bo Persson <bo@bo-persson.se> - 2020-01-24 14:19 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 14:11 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-24 17:26 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-24 17:35 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-24 22:27 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-24 23:21 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-25 11:06 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-24 22:12 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-24 23:24 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-25 09:04 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-25 04:15 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 19:55 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 00:05 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 01:19 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-25 19:50 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 11:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2020-01-25 13:42 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 14:58 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 07:58 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:34 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-25 12:41 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-26 16:08 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 02:20 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-27 15:03 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-15 06:44 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-03-06 10:18 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-02 07:05 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-04-02 20:03 +0300
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-04-04 12:37 -0700
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 07:45 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 19:56 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 09:49 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 21:33 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 11:00 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-25 22:23 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-26 11:46 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Paavo Helde <myfirstname@osa.pri.ee> - 2020-01-26 10:55 +0200
                Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2020-01-26 03:47 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 01:28 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-25 22:22 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2020-01-25 18:24 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 12:54 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 12:44 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 14:58 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 14:53 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 19:10 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 13:20 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-26 20:51 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 21:02 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-26 19:06 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-27 18:50 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 14:18 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-27 22:13 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2020-01-27 21:38 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 19:37 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2020-01-27 19:15 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea "Fred. Zwarts" <F.Zwarts@KVI.nl> - 2020-01-28 11:45 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-27 16:31 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2020-01-26 18:50 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2020-01-26 18:57 +0000
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 20:46 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-26 13:14 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-26 22:15 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2020-01-27 21:06 -0600
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-28 13:08 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 01:50 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-27 08:21 +1300
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:14 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-01-25 20:12 +0100
                Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 07:48 -0800
                Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-02-18 18:46 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-09 17:03 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 06:56 +0100
      Re: two's complement idea Christian Gollwitzer <auriocus@gmx.de> - 2019-11-05 08:24 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2019-11-05 08:35 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2019-11-04 23:36 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2019-11-05 09:19 -0500
  Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 08:32 +0100
    Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 09:23 +0100
      Re: two's complement idea Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2020-01-22 14:20 +0100
        Re: two's complement idea Chris Vine <chris@cvine--nospam--.freeserve.co.uk> - 2020-01-22 13:37 +0000
      Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-01-27 01:17 -0800
        Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2020-01-27 12:35 +0100
          Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-15 05:56 -0800
            Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2020-02-16 09:17 +0100
              Re: two's complement idea Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-02-21 19:35 -0500
                Re: two's complement idea "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2020-02-22 07:01 +0100
              Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-24 08:22 -0800
      Re: two's complement idea cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2020-02-24 03:12 +0000
        Re: two's complement idea cdalten@gmail.com - 2020-02-24 05:53 -0800
        Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-25 07:56 -0800
          Re: two's complement idea cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2020-02-25 22:00 +0000
            Re: two's complement idea Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2020-02-25 16:14 -0800
              Re: two's complement idea cdalten@gmail.com - 2020-02-25 18:18 -0800
              Re: two's complement idea cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2020-02-26 02:22 +0000

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