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Re: Driverless cars

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Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> wrote:
> 
> To be honest, I?m more tense with it than without it. I have a 
> non-autopilot Tesla that?s in for some work, and my loaner has autopilot. 
> Have given it a few goes whilst I have it - I?m honestly much more tense 
> watching it than I am just driving myself.
> 
> Observations so far from it:
> - for my money, it gets way too close to other vehicles particularly on the 
> left (for others reading - this the UK, so driving on the left and passing 
> vehicles in the lane to the right). It?s particularly not good at this on 
> bends - went past a coach in the left and line whilst motorway bent to the 
> right, and I just had to take back control as it was getting dangerously 
> close to the coach
> - bad at cambered or uneven roads - it drifts too close to the left-hand 
> lines for me.

Oh dear, good luck here in Australia. I wonder what happens if you
find a real pothole (which happens on a major highway that I regularly
take).

> - lane changing is a fantastically jerky experience, though it?s better 
> than when I first tried it (older software version).
> - not ?helpful? - so doesn?t realise it should move a little to let 
> lane-splitting bikers past, for instance
> 
> Those are the downsides. Now the good:
> - it does actually work. If you can just trust it a bit, it will drive just 
> fine in motorway conditions
> - the speed tracking is very good. I actually felt quite comfortable in 
> manual steer with the car handling the speeds.

Is that following other cars, or reading speed limits from road
signs (did try to look it up - "speed tracking" might not be an
official term)?

> - The emergency avoidance is astounding. Not this time round, but the 
> previous time I had a loaner someone got their lanes wrong and pulled out 
> very close in front of me and headed the wrong way down the lane with a 
> head-on collision on the cards. The car took over instantly and came to a 
> stop - I?m honestly not sure if I?d have managed the same.

I'm not sure about letting a car decide to come to a hard stop in the
middle of a highway based on its own judgement, but nice to hear that
it worked there.

> So right now - it?s interesting stuff. Lots of ?hmm? moments still 
> about, but it?s pretty interesting.
> 
>> Compare and contrast with this Reuters report of driverless (as in no
>> cab) electric trucks in Sweden which have permission to go on public
>> roads in an industrial estate area of Jonkoping.
>>
>> <https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-einride-autonomous-sweden/driverless-electr
>> ic-truck-starts-deliveries-on-swedish-public-road-idUKKCN1SL0NC>
>>
>> From the article:
>> > The T-Pod has permission to make short trips - between a warehouse
>> > and a terminal - on a public road in an industrial area in
>> > Jonkoping, central Sweden, at up to 5 km/hr, documents from the
>> > transport authority show.
>>
>> Yes, that's right, a whole *5* kilometers per hour!
> 
> Yep - if you look at the limitations I?m describing...there?s no way I 
> think literally driverless is ready yet.

I'm probably misreading the term as it is generally being used, but I
would argue that a car becomes "driverless" as soon as the human
driver ceases to control the car. They are then no longer driving,
and from a practical point of view, more likely to stop paying close
attention to what's happening on the road (once accustomed to the
experience, at least). I interpret cases such as when a Tesla crashed
into roadworks because the automation didn't identify the change of
conditions, as evidence of the human oversight having already been
removed.

No human means plodding along at walking pace, but human who's
probably looking at their phone can be going at highway speeds. It
doesn't seem consistent to me. Although that's comparing between
different countries, and last I heard it's still illegal to take
your hands off the steering wheel while in the driver's seat of a
driving vehicle here in Australia.

-- 
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[Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-05-31 11:43 +0000
  Re: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-05-31 22:14 +1000
    Re: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-05-31 14:41 +0000
      Re: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid> - 2019-05-31 20:16 +0000
      Re: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2019-06-02 00:22 +0100
        Re: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2019-06-02 11:58 +0100
    Re: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail mm0fmf <none@invalid.com> - 2019-05-31 18:08 +0100
      Re: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> - 2019-06-01 12:47 +1000
        Driverless cars (Was: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-06-01 20:29 +0000
          Re: Driverless cars (Was: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail) RS Wood <rsw@therandymon.com> - 2019-06-02 16:30 +0000
            Re: Driverless cars (Was: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2019-06-02 23:17 +0000
              Re: Driverless cars (Was: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail) Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-06-04 00:02 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars (Was: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail) Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2019-06-04 18:43 +0100
                Re: Driverless cars (Was: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is   Doomed to Fail) Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-06-04 21:55 +0100
                Re: Driverless cars not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2019-06-04 22:57 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2019-06-05 11:53 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2019-06-05 15:52 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-06-05 16:28 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2019-06-05 23:10 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2019-06-05 23:47 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2019-06-05 20:06 -0700
                Re: Driverless cars Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2019-06-06 08:55 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-06-06 12:39 +0100
                Re: Driverless cars Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-06-06 16:51 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-06-06 20:35 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-06-06 23:39 +0200
                Re: Driverless cars Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-06-07 08:17 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> - 2019-06-07 09:39 +0100
                Re: Driverless cars Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2019-06-07 00:26 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2019-06-07 18:08 -0400
                Re: Driverless cars not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2019-06-07 23:50 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> - 2019-06-06 13:51 -0700
                Re: Driverless cars Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-06-06 23:39 +0200
                Re: Driverless cars Bob Eager <news0073@eager.cx> - 2019-06-06 21:50 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Ian McCall <ian@eruvia.org> - 2019-06-05 16:28 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2019-06-05 16:58 -0300
                Re: Driverless cars Stephen Hall <s__hall@gmail.com> - 2019-06-08 19:17 +0000
                Re: Driverless cars Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2019-06-09 09:49 +0000
    Re: [Link Posting] Why Codeless Software is Doomed to Fail Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> - 2019-06-02 00:14 +0100

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