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Groups > alt.os.linux > #54295
| From | Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.os.linux |
| Subject | Re: freshly installed SW not found |
| Date | 2019-03-03 01:08 +0100 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <q5f5uo$9vp$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <slrnq7dd48.3t0.dan@djph.net> <q56pf6$1l5$1@dont-email.me> <slrnq7ffp7.3t0.dan@djph.net> <q5973c$fc4$1@dont-email.me> <slrnq7ie30.3mp.dan@djph.net> |
On 01/03/19 14:49, Dan Purgert wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> Soviet_Mario wrote:
>> On 28/02/19 11:59, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>> Soviet_Mario wrote:
>>>> On 27/02/19 17:02, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>>>> Soviet_Mario wrote:
>>>>>> On 27/02/19 13:44, Aragorn wrote:
>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> rsnapshot uses hard-linking for files that haven't changed since
>>>>>>> the last backup. Hard links don't use up any inodes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mmm, then I must have chosen the wrong terms.
>>>>>> But some other kind of disk space must be used to add a link
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>> so the link information is stored where ?
>>>> I'm not saying the content need to be stored, but the link
>>>> to it for sure : in as many places as there are the links
>>>
>>> On the filesystem/directory metadata ("in" the directory, but it doesn't
>>> take space.
>>
>> i reckon it does, even if it takes "reserved" space. And
>> anyway it takes time to be readed
>
> You reckon wrong. Upon creation, of the filesystem, the space is
> already used (for the inode itself). After that, you just update the
> inode to say how many "files(tm)" are hard-linked to it.
>
> It doesn't matter if there's only one file linked to the inode, or a
> thousand - you still have to read that inode to know where the data
> actually is.
>
> It's faster to read a thousand "files" linked to the same inode, than
> 1000 separate inodes, as you're only reading metadata (contained in
> tightly grouped tables) rather than having to jump all over the
> filesystem.
>
>>> [...]
>>> You're crossing hard-links (file A and file B are exactly the same
>>> inode,
>>
>> I don't miss this point, I was saying a different thing :
>> this same inode is listed under as many directories as the
>> hardlinks
>
> No. "inodes" don't exist in directories. They exist in metadata tables
> (e.g. stored in the first few cylinders of a FS).
>
> "Files" in a directory are all hard-links, pointing to the inode tables.
> In a lot of cases, there's only one hard-link -- such as the SINGLE file
> "$HOME/test.txt" pointing to whatever inode it was assigned.
>
> The inodes / inode tables then provide all the metadata:
>
> - size and physical location on disk
> - owner and group
> - permission bits
> - relevant access / modify / etc. timestamps (FS dependent)
> - reference counter of hard-links
>
>
I need to re-read that above again, seems intresting
>>
>>> there is no reference / dereference), and soft-links (file A
>>> [inode 1234] points to fileB [inode 5678])
>>
>> yes to be able to cross FS boundaries
>>
>>>
>>>>>> to somewhere. And this huge list of items (be them inode or
>>>>>> else) really slows down directory listing and scan, for
>>>>>> example when I perform searches or get properties (counts,
>>>>>> stats etc)
>>>>>
>>>>> Which'll be as equally slow, if not slower, when you try doing it on a
>>>>> tarball.
>>>>
>>>> If one has just a huge one, for sure. That's why I wanted
>>>> tarbal:folder=1:1
>>>
>>> Er, which means that you have to untar the whole thing, at least into
>>> memory. Which, depending on your hardware will result in no gains, or a
>>> net slowdown.
>>
>> lets put it from start.
>>
>> Long time ago in a distant galaxy, there was a file system
>> structure very deeply nested and complex, but much static in
>> its general shape and very well known and familiar to its owner
>>
>> The contents changed here and there.
>> This wierd owner desired two different and contradictory
>> goals : to have phisical copies of the updates versions
>> (distinct files) while at the same time sharing one single
>> copy of the folder structure (or a "super-set" when some
>> change to it occurred), as in crawling in the tree he
>> seldomly required search.
>> to be continued...
>
> It sounds like you might be conflating a _filesystem_ (e.g. ext4) with a
> hierarchy (e.g. the linux FHS).
I need to find some documentation about conflating a file
system :\ Never heard about, i must admit
>
> A filesystem (e.g. ext4) defines how things are physically stored on
> disk -- that is, stuff like where we're keeping the metadata, or how
> much space we're skipping between file writes, or whether or not the
> filename is directly associated to the data, etc.)
>
> On the other hand, a hierarchy defines the layout of files and
> directories on said filesystem. On Linux FHS-compliant systems, this
> means something like this:
>
> "/" - Root. Everything is a child of this directory.
> "/bin" - system binaries generally required for booting
> "/boot" - bootloader / kernel
> "/dev" - devices
> "/etc" - short for "et cetera". System-wide configurations are stored
> here
> "/home" - user home directories
> "/lib" - shared libraries required for booting
> "/lib[qual]" - additional shared libraries, generally used for
> multiarch support. e.g. lib32, lib64.
> "/media" - used for automounting media
> "/mnt" - used for "temporary" mountpoints
> "/opt" - "optional" things (e.g. system-specific binaries, such as
> an IDE or similar).[1]
> "/proc" - processor / memory / etc. hardware info
> "/root" - the home directory for the root "user"
> "/run" - runtime variable data (e.g. pidfiles, lockfiles, and so on)
> "/sbin" - "system" binaries. Stuff that root needs for system
> management that aren't required at boot time.
> "/srv" - data for services provided by the system (e.g. /srv/ftp)
> "/tmp" - temporary data
> "/usr" - another hierarchy of read-only system resources, generally
> provided by a distribution. It partially duplicates the root
> hierarchy with /usr/{bin,lib,sbin,share}.
> "/usr/local" - LOCAL hierarchy of read-only system resources,
> generally provided by an admin for use either on a specific host,
> though can also mean "local to this organization". Like /usr,
> this contains the subdirectories bin,lib,sbin,share.
>
> [1] Personally, I find /opt pointless, and only use it when a package
> maintainer decides to dump stuff there (read: I don't wanna recompile
> and put it in /usr/local/, where it belongs).
>
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>
--
1) Resistere, resistere, resistere.
2) Se tutti pagano le tasse, le tasse le pagano tutti
Soviet_Mario - (aka Gatto_Vizzato)
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freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-26 19:47 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-02-26 20:28 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-26 21:51 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 21:46 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 12:52 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-02-27 12:44 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-02-27 13:27 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-02-27 15:16 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 16:59 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-02-27 16:02 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 20:46 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-27 20:18 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-28 12:47 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-28 18:32 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-01 01:14 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-01 01:54 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-03-01 03:09 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-02-27 20:21 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-27 23:02 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2019-02-27 23:24 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-02-28 04:46 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-02-28 10:59 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-28 18:51 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-28 18:24 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-01 13:49 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-01 18:22 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-01 19:06 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-03 01:08 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-03 00:14 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-03 13:00 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-03 12:46 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-28 18:15 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-27 16:38 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 20:51 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-02-28 04:39 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-27 14:30 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "J.O. Aho" <user@example.net> - 2019-02-27 07:05 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-27 14:29 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-02-27 08:50 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-02-28 00:05 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 16:56 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-03-01 14:58 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2019-03-01 15:04 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 10:50 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-01 18:40 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 14:40 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-01 23:38 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 19:09 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-02 03:47 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-03-01 22:55 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-02 07:08 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:27 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-03-02 04:10 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-03-02 16:29 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:54 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:24 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2019-03-02 00:28 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:31 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-02 11:31 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-03-02 11:34 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Aragorn <thorongil@telenet.be> - 2019-03-02 11:48 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-03-02 12:15 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 23:15 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Chris Elvidge <chris@mshome.net> - 2019-03-03 00:33 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-03 01:38 +0100
Compressed filesystems [Was: Re: freshly installed SW not found] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-03 13:11 +0100
Re: Compressed filesystems [Was: Re: freshly installed SW not found] Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-03-03 19:49 +0100
Re: Compressed filesystems [Was: Re: freshly installed SW not found] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-03 21:17 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2019-03-03 12:49 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Melzzzzz <Melzzzzz@zzzzz.com> - 2019-03-03 12:35 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2019-03-02 11:22 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found Wildman <best_lay@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-26 13:31 -0600
Re: freshly installed SW not found Wildman <best_lay@yahoo.com> - 2019-02-26 15:42 -0600
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 21:51 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2019-02-26 14:36 -0500
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-26 21:58 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 21:49 +0000
Re: freshly installed SW not found Soviet_Mario <SovietMario@CCCP.MIR> - 2019-02-27 12:54 +0100
Re: freshly installed SW not found William Unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2019-02-26 19:51 +0000
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