Re: Makefile or not?

From	pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.arch.embedded
Subject	Re: Makefile or not?
Date	2018-12-03 12:13 +0100
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<pu335c$u11$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<pu2orv$702$1@dont-email.me> <pu2v7a$8m3$1@dont-email.me>

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Il 03/12/2018 11:06, David Brown ha scritto:
> On 03/12/18 09:18, pozz wrote:
>> What do you really use for embedded projects? Do you use "standard"
>> makefile or do you rely on IDE functionalities?
>>
>> Nowadays every MCU manufacturers give IDE, mostly for free, usually
>> based on Eclipse (Atmel Studio and Microchip are probably the most
>> important exception).
>> Anyway most of them use arm gcc as the compiler.
>>
>> I usually try to compile the same project for the embedded target and
>> the development machine, so I can speed up development and debugging. I
>> usually use the native IDE from the manufacturer of the target and
>> Code::Blocks (with mingw) for compilation on the development machine.
>> So I have two IDEs for a single project.
>>
>> I'm thinking to finally move to Makefile, however I don't know if it is
>> a good and modern choice. Do you use better alternatives?
>>
> 
> I sometimes use the IDE project management to start with, or on very
> small projects.  But for anything serious, I always use makefiles.  I
> see it as important to separate the production build process from the
> development - I need to know that I can always pull up the source code
> for a project, do a "build", and get a bit-perfect binary image that is
> exactly the same as last time.  This must work on different machines,
> preferably different OS's, and it must work over time.  (My record is
> rebuilding a project that was a touch over 20 years old, and getting the
> same binary.)
> 
> This means that the makefile specifies exactly which build toolchain
> (compiler, linker, library, etc.) are used - and that does not change
> during a project's lifetime, without very good reason.
> 
> The IDE, and debugger, however, may change - there I will often use
> newer versions with more features than the original version.  And
> sometimes I might use a lighter editor for a small change, rather than
> the full IDE.  So IDE version and build tools version are independent.
> 
> With well-designed makefiles, you can have different targets for
> different purposes.  "make bin" for making the embedded binary, "make
> pc" for making the PC version, "make tests" for running the test code on
> the pc, and so on.

Fortunately modern IDEs separate well the toolchain from the IDE itself. 
Most manufacturers let us install the toolchain as a separate setup. I 
remember some years ago the scenario was different and the compiler is 
"included" in the IDE installation.

However the problem here isn't the compiler (toolchain) that nowadays is 
usually arm-gcc. The big issue is with libraries and includes that the 
manufacturer give you to save some time in writing drivers of peripherals.
I have to install the full IDE and copy the interesting headers and 
libraries in my folders.

Another small issue is the linker script file that works like a charm in 
the IDE when you start a new project from the wizard.
At least for me, it's very difficult to write a linker script from the 
scratch. You need to have a deeper understanding of the C libraries 
(newlib, redlib, ...) to write a correct linker script.
My solution is to start with IDE wizard and copy the generated linker 
script in my make-based project.


>> My major reason to move from IDE compilation to Makefile is the test. I
>> would start adding unit testing to my project. I understood a good
>> solution is to link all the object files of the production code to a
>> static library. In this way it will be very simple to replace production
>> code with testing (mocking) code, simple prepending the testing oject
>> files to static library of production code during linking.
>>
> 
> I would not bother with that.  I would have different variations in the
> build handled in different build tree directories.

Could you explain?


>> I think these type of things can be managed with Makefile instead of IDE
>> compilation.
>>
>> What do you think?
> 
> It can /all/ be managed from make.
> 
> Also, a well-composed makefile is more efficient than an IDE project
> manager, IME.  When you use Eclipse to do a build, it goes through each
> file to calculate the dependencies - so that you re-compile all the
> files that might be affected by the last changes, but not more than
> that.  But it does this dependency calculation anew each time.  With
> make, you can arrange to generate dependency files using gcc, and these
> dependency files get updated only when needed.  This can save
> significant time in a build when you have a lot of files.

Yes, this is sure!

Thread

Makefile or not? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 09:18 +0100
  Re: Makefile or not? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-03 11:06 +0100
    Re: Makefile or not? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 12:13 +0100
      Re: Makefile or not? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-03 12:57 +0100
        Re: Makefile or not? pozz <pozzugno@gmail.com> - 2018-12-03 23:29 +0100
    Re: Makefile or not? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-03 15:39 +0000
      Re: Makefile or not? Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-12-03 15:49 +0000
        Re: Makefile or not? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2018-12-03 09:41 -0800
        Re: Makefile or not? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-03 21:31 +0100
  Re: Makefile or not? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-03 15:30 +0000
    Re: Makefile or not? DJ Delorie <dj@delorie.com> - 2018-12-03 14:05 -0500
      Re: Makefile or not? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-03 19:36 +0000
        Re: Makefile or not? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2018-12-04 09:30 +1100
          Re: Makefile or not? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-03 23:19 +0000
            Re: Makefile or not? raimond.dragomir@gmail.com - 2018-12-03 22:02 -0800
            Re: Makefile or not? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-04 12:18 +0100
              Re: Makefile or not? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-04 15:46 +0000
                Re: Makefile or not? Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-12-04 20:22 +0000
          Re: Makefile or not? Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2018-12-03 15:38 -0800
        Re: Makefile or not? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-12-04 21:25 -0500
          Re: Makefile or not? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-05 03:22 +0000
          Re: Makefile or not? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-05 09:06 +0100
        Re: Makefile or not? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2018-12-05 11:37 -0500
        Re: Makefile or not? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-12-05 15:37 -0500
          Re: Makefile or not? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-05 22:34 +0000
            Re: Makefile or not? Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2018-12-05 14:56 -0800
              Re: Makefile or not? Grant Edwards <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2018-12-05 23:50 +0000
                Re: Makefile or not? Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2018-12-05 16:27 -0800
                Re: Makefile or not? Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2018-12-05 17:47 -0800
                Re: Makefile or not? Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-12-06 08:12 +0000
                Re: Makefile or not? Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2018-12-06 10:17 -0800
                Re: Makefile or not? gtwrek@sonic.net (gtwrek) - 2018-12-06 18:35 +0000
                Re: Makefile or not? Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-12-06 18:39 +0000
            Re: Makefile or not? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-06 09:22 +0100
            Re: Makefile or not? Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2018-12-06 18:46 +0000
              Re: Makefile or not? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-06 21:51 +0100
                Re: Makefile or not? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2018-12-06 13:47 -0800
                Re: Makefile or not? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-06 22:48 +0100
                Re: Makefile or not? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2018-12-06 14:01 -0800
                Re: Makefile or not? Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2018-12-07 14:54 +0200
    Re: Makefile or not? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2018-12-03 21:34 +0100
  Re: Makefile or not? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-12-03 11:06 -0500
    Re: Makefile or not? Jacob Sparre Andersen <jacob@jacob-sparre.dk> - 2018-12-03 22:05 +0100
      Re: Makefile or not? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2018-12-04 21:19 -0500
  Re: Makefile or not? queequeg@trust.no1 (Queequeg) - 2018-12-07 13:45 +0000

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