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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #501563
| From | "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | rec.arts.sf.written |
| Subject | Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor |
| Date | 2018-10-30 08:18 -0400 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <pr9i7h$e75$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | <XnsA972AC6D8DF74Kdeuramagmailcom@85.214.115.223> <ppi81l$e2u$1@dont-email.me> <XnsA9777D4D060F1Kdeuramagmailcom@85.214.115.223> <ppm2oo$mdd$1@dont-email.me> <87k1m13m3i.fsf@violet.siamics.net> |
On 10/28/18 3:30 PM, Ivan Shmakov wrote:
>>>>>> Sea Wasp (Ryk E Spoor) <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 10/10/18 3:19 PM, Joe Bernstein wrote:
>
> (Now that I've finished reading the book, I guess I can just as
> well join the discussion.)
>
Well, it's true that having read the whole book helps in discussing
things. :)
> [...]
>
> >> I was often miserably lonely, but this was a rich social life
> >> compared to much that lay ahead. If we go on to when I was fourteen
> >> (I was two grades ahead), it was even richer, because by then girls
> >> who interested me were talking to me (though not dating me).
>
> > This is not my experience of high school, nor that of most of the
> > people I knew. I had very, very few friends. I did not socialize
> > with anyone who did not share a number of interests with me. My
> > richest social life lay much farther ahead. (I DID use the terror
> > of homosexuality on occasion; threatening to kiss guys bothering me
> > would get them to flee)
>
> > Part of the irony of Holy Aura for me is that she finds her high
> > school life ATTRACTIVE, when it was a period of life I wouldn't
> > have gone back to if you paid me. OTOH, compared with Steve's
> > life... that's a different choice.
>
> I suppose I can understand that; I was having a nightmare every
> now and then about going back to high school -- for perhaps a
> decade since I've graduated from there.
It was bad enough for me that as a parent it was, at first, somewhat
traumatizing to walk INTO a school, even though it had been a long, long
time since I'd been in one.
>
> [...]
>
> >> In other words, I think the comparison the character makes is
> >> rigged. So the book's advice to people like the earlier me boils
> >> down to "be a rich girl instead". This is why I'd rather the
> >> protagonist had decided on pretty much *any* other grounds.
>
> > There's no advice in the book at all.
>
> > The point of _Princess Holy Aura_ was to examine the typical Mahou
> > Shoujo setup from a slightly different point of view, and examine the
> > CHOICES made *with respect to that particular setup* -- for instance,
> > the moral/ethical issues involved with selecting fourteen year old
> > girls as your shocktroops in the war against Ultimate Evil.
>
> > The original title of _Princess Holy Aura_ (and still the title of
> > the series if/when I continue it) is The Ethical Magical Girl.
> > ("Moral" might or might not be a better term, but "Ethical" flows
> > much better).
>
> At this point, I had to look into a dictionary [1]. Apparently
> the Latin word ('moralis') the English 'moral' comes from was
> "first used by Cicero, to translate Ancient Greek 'ethikos'
> ('moral'.)" (And 'ethical' is listed as a synonym there.)
>
> So, while I somehow came to ascribe slightly different meanings
> to these two ("moral" referring more to the instinctual, innate
> understanding of good and bad, while "ethical" emphasizing the
> societal convention, as well as the possibility of development),
> it looks like this distinction may in fact be a feature of my
> own personal version of English.
>
> (And yes, 'ethical' flows better.)
People do use them interchangeably, which is why I thought I could get
away with it. My nitpicky self always nags at me, though.
>
> [1] http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/moral
>
> > The entire FOCUS of the novel is "Do the Right Thing".
>
> > If you take anything in the book as being relevant to real life,
> > it's fairly overt -- the position and treatment of young women in
> > society, the difficulties of people in lower-class situations, etc.
>
> Well, I'm going to ask what I find essentially the same question,
> but from a different angle. Stephen Russ was, at one point, a
> 14-year-old geek himself. Through choices and (mis)fortune, he
> ended up where we find them at the start of the novel: no parents,
> friends scattered across the country, a not-quite-rewarding (so to
> say) job.
>
> Now that she's Holly Owen, 14, what, exactly, prevents her life
> from taking a similar turn? I mean, other than the obvious
> "standing for the world" business (which will likely keep their
> company together for a while) -- and a tangible chance of the
> nascent romance developing into a rock-solid relationship?
Her entire circumstances are different. She's not a boy, but a girl,
and apparently comfortable as one (exploring the details of WHY might be
an interesting side note for her, if she goes that route). She's highly
physically attractive, seems to have a positive personality, is growing
up a decade and a half later than Steve did, has a close-knit group of
friends with a broad swath of interests and skills who will give her a
number of other ... well, PUSHES to keep herself involved with the
world, she has a boyfriend who she knew as a friend for at least a few
years prior (which is an important aspect of any romance), and, last but
certainly not least, she's got immense supernatural power, she's saved
the world with it after risking everything, and she still has a PURPOSE
in life.
>
> Other than that, my other issues (if they can indeed be called
> that) with the novel are fairly generic. For example, what the
> aliens eat for^W^W do when they /do not/ try to invade Earth?
> With the successive incursions being separated by decades
> (if not centuries), it seems that conquering Earth is hardly a
> matter of survival.
The implication in the novel is that they CAN'T get to Earth in between
the seals, so they're probably either (A) looking for other worlds that
need destroying/changing, and (B) preparing for their next chance. Holy
Aura perceives that they are inimical to the existence of life as we
know it, and they hate and/or fear the magic/power/essence of humanity
and Earth.
Moreover, unless I be mistaken, their goal
> is to convert Earth to be more like their own plane of
> existence. Now, Earth attracts them by being different; what
> would they do once it becomes the same? What'd be their gain?
As implied above, we are an obscenity to them, or a threat. They tried
to squish us like bugs, and found out we had a far nastier sting than
they imagined possible. The gain is, well, security. Whether it's
security as in "We finally got rid of that wasp's nest" or "we finally
defeated smallpox" or "we finally defeated the alien monsters" isn't
completely clear.
>
> Then, the antagonists are depicted as exhibiting behavior not
> unlike 'loyalty' and 'friendship.' Which is to say, being
> perhaps a bit too humane? (It's something that, say, Lovecraft's
> stories tend to lack, IMO.)
>
Such a thing is seen between Queen Nyarla and Arlaung, yes, but it
should be noted that both of those have strong EARTHLY connections.
Arlaung comes from the Deep Ones, and while he may have a strong strain
of unearthly blood he's still connected strongly to Earthly life as
well. And Nyarla, of course, was originally human.
We see little-to-none of that between the true horrors that are
summoned into the world.
> This is of course related to my deep conviction that no "life"
> is possible, in the long term, without a degree of harmony and
> beauty -- however alien, and even inimical, it may be to man.
>
They may have such perceptions but they exist in a form outside that of
our normal human understanding.
> (Which kind of prompts me to wonder if even a truce is indeed
> impossible?)
One based on mutual understanding, probably not. One based on "Holy
crap, they just blew away Azathoth Nine-Armed!", perhaps.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.dreamwidth.org
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Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 19:19 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-10 19:42 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-11 00:13 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-11 06:55 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 04:25 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-12 08:23 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-12 08:59 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 20:17 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-12 19:20 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-13 02:50 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-13 05:46 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-13 14:55 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-10-13 09:29 -0500
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-13 15:21 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-13 11:41 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 21:50 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 18:29 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-14 23:24 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-14 20:01 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-10-15 02:05 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-15 09:18 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 16:45 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-10-17 22:54 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-15 19:32 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-10-16 07:13 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> - 2018-10-16 14:13 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 23:53 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 21:31 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-10-16 22:43 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-10-17 05:03 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor frank.scrooby@gmail.com - 2018-10-16 23:44 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-17 06:54 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor peterwezeman@hotmail.com - 2018-10-13 13:21 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-13 21:48 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-13 16:01 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 21:42 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-12 18:16 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 23:48 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-12 20:00 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-13 00:36 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-12 22:04 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 00:21 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-15 19:31 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor -dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-18 12:48 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-19 04:33 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-19 16:29 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-19 18:12 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> - 2018-10-20 09:45 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-26 02:30 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-26 12:35 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-10-28 19:30 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-28 23:03 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-30 08:18 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-10-31 01:12 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-31 02:33 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-31 10:53 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-31 14:27 -0500
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-31 13:54 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-10-31 14:41 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-11-01 14:40 +1300
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-11-01 14:34 +1300
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-10-31 16:12 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-31 20:11 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-11-01 11:55 -0500
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-11-01 16:12 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-11-01 17:43 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-11-01 19:35 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-11-02 16:47 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-11-01 10:18 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-11-01 19:35 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-10 19:47 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-11 14:57 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-11 18:15 -0400
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