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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #500325
| From | "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | rec.arts.sf.written |
| Subject | Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor |
| Date | 2018-10-12 20:00 -0400 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <pprcjm$6j7$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (2 earlier) <XnsA9777D4D060F1Kdeuramagmailcom@85.214.115.223> <ppm2oo$mdd$1@dont-email.me> <XnsA979958B642DDKdeuramagmailcom@85.214.115.223> <ppr6fp$7fd$1@dont-email.me> <XnsA979AAE63B1C7Kdeuramagmailcom@85.214.115.223> |
On 10/12/18 7:48 PM, Joe Bernstein wrote:
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in
> news:ppr6fp$7fd$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 10/12/18 5:42 PM, Joe Bernstein wrote:
>
>>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in
>>> news:ppm2oo$mdd$1@dont-email.me a post to which I've already replied
>>> once, which he's answered in turn. I try to integrate answers to
>>> both his posts in this reply.
>
>>>> On 10/10/18 3:19 PM, Joe Bernstein wrote:
>
>>>>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in
>>>>> news:ppi81l$e2u$1@dont-email.me:
>
>>>>>> (Spoilers below, naturally)
>
>>> Now in abundance. Really, don't read on if you haven't read the book.
>
> Also massive snippage again.
>
>>>>>> On 10/5/18 7:57 PM, Joe Bernstein wrote:
>
>>>>>> Another major factor is that while Steve had gaming friends, he had
>>>>>> very few PEERS. He was essentially alone in his life, his parents gone,
>>>>>> all his friends from childhood dead or dispersed, and his gaming group
>>>>>> the only outside contact he had. He was a nice guy, and he knew as
>>>>>> nodding acquaintances a lot of people around him, but he was in an
>>>>>> isolated, dead-end existence. The promise of "well, the magic will make
>>>>>> your life better if this ends well" is nice, but that's a vague future
>>>>>> promise even if you believe it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Her existence as Holly, OTOH, was very real, immediate, and more
>>>>>> diverse and colorful than his existence as Steve.
>
>>>>>>> But I
>>>>>>> think the book *does* have a genuine flaw, at the end, when the
>>>>>>> darkness proper to the protagonist's decisions is undermined by their
>>>>>>> lack of clear motivation. [2]
>
>>>>> In the post you're quoting, I waffled by putting it in plural:
>>>>> "decisions". Later I said the evidence that I was talking about a
>>>>> "decision" at all was weak, but my interlocutor said it was a
>>>>> reasonable word choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, what I mean is Holly's expressed preference for staying a
>>>>> girl after the apocalypse is averted, followed by her action that
>>>>> (almost certainly unintentionally) makes that preference
>>>>> unavoidable, followed, of course, by the magical loose end that
>>>>> enables the preference to happen (once again, in this book, neatly
>>>>> subordinating the magical to the personal). Her strong hostility
>>>>> toward her (original) male form *is* dark, and should have dark
>>>>> underpinnings; it doesn't.
>
>>>> I don't see it as dark but more conflicting. Holly's found a really
>>>> pretty wonderful life that she did not expect, especially with the
>>>> initial strain of becoming Holy Aura and abandoning Steve for very
>>>> practical reasons. After all the time -- very, VERY intense time with
>>>> strong emotional components -- with her new friends,
>
>>> This is, to a certain extent, careless phrasing on your part. Much
>>> of the hostility I point to is already there after a relatively short
>>> time being friends with Seika Cooper.
>>>
>>> Chapter 22 again: "The voice he used to accept sounded completely
>>> wrong in his ears. The way his body felt--slow, heavy, ponderous--
>>> was actually repellent."
>>>
>>> This is *before* the other three (though not before the new game) and
>>> *before* Dex even joins the game, let alone becomes her boyfriend.
>
>> Ahh, but *AFTER* she has spent MONTHS in the body of Holly Owen. The
>> body dysphoria is separate from his/her emotional connection to the
>> friends he/she meets.
>
> Yes, but for once I didn't write carelessly. The body dysphoria is
> *exactly* what I called dark. I'm not saying "Love wins" is a dark
> theme, I'm saying "Trash your own past" is a dark theme.
>
> I've thrown away the long list of quotes I typed out, but there's a
> point later in the book where you have Holly think of it as an
> "alien aversion". You also call it "self-hatred" a few times.
>
>>>> she's developed
>>>> extremely strong bonds with them-- stronger and more emotionally
>>>> powerful than likely any bonds he's ever had with anyone outside his
>>>> parents.
>
>>>> It's only DARK if you think that it's BAD that a person can change
>>>> their goals and self-image.
>
>>> Well, um, how to put this?
>>>
>>> Stephen Russ dies.
>
>>> The book is the story of two lives competing, because only one can be
>>> real, and that isn't even affected by the magical out at the end.
>>> It's got tons of sugarcoating, but that is a fundamentally dark theme.
>
>> In the end, Steve and Holly ARE NOT COMPETING. They are 100% in tune
>> with what needs to be done and they're both just fine with it. Both of
>> them expect to be obliterated -- and "both of them" is a miswriting,
>> because it's really just two ... *personas*, two masks that they use to
>> face the world. The SELF is still there, untouched, just changed by
>> experience to see things differently.
>
> I say "lives", you say "personas". This is partly because I'm
> looking partly from the outside, I think; to the Ochoas, what's gone
> is Stephen Russ's life.
>
> Anyway, I probably should have said something like
>
> || This book tells the story of ...
>
> [High school and its futures, different versions of]
>>> Which of us is more like Stephen Russ?
>>>
>>> I don't believe his emotional history is as drab as you think it is.
>
>> Steve's situation was constrained by his resources, his setting, and
>> time. Gaming was his one contact with other people that he knew HOW to
>> find other people. He was kind and personable once you got to know him,
>> but his connection to "people at work" wasn't the same. He was the nice
>> guy in the neighborhood who everyone LIKED, but he wasn't quite in the
>> social circle for various reasons that would be something of an essay
>> itself since the reasons will be different for different groups
>
> This isn't an exact description of me, but it's more than close
> enough for government work. So I'm saying I don't believe that guy
> was so isolated in high school, in particular, or in the Air Force,
> that a close friendship is an utter novelty to him.
>
>>> From my point of view [...] Stephen
>>> Russ can only be convincing if he shares this talent for alienating
>>> people. But he loses it as soon as he becomes Holly Owen, and in any
>>> event he's much more effectively concerned about other people than
>>> I've ever been, so I don't think he ever had it. So the more I think
>>> about it, the less convincing he becomes.
>
> [A morass. I can't read your previous paragraph as *not* insulting,
> but OK, let's try to go on.]
While I can't see it as being insulting.
Which may be an example of why *I* didn't have any friends when I was
young. I insulted people not only without knowing it, but I couldn't
figure out how AFTERWARD, either.
>> I said, in effect, "I
>> never saw that there was a problem with being a virgin", not "if you
>> aren't a virgin you must suck". I never absorbed the idea that I OUGHT
>> to have sex. Did I WANT to have sex, sure, thought about it a lot. But
>> it wasn't, as you seemed to be saying, a Bad Thing that I was a virgin.
>> I was somewhat envious of those who HAD lots of sex, but it wasn't
>> something that then made me feel that there was either something wrong
>> with THEM, OR something wrong with ME.
>
> The first girl I understood myself as loving - unrequitedly - went on
> to an abusive relationship. The profoundly unflattering comparison
> thus invited *certainly* left me worrying what was wrong with me, and
> that may have spilled over into my ideas about sex.
>
> But also, saving oneself for marriage wasn't something I can remember
> anyone really talking about in my youth, which was largely spent
> among the upper middle class, the emerging technocratic elite I
> suppose, in an academic family, a high school for "the college bound",
> and then the University of Chicago.
>
> I haven't always been poor. If I'd had the kind of morality you seem
> to infer, I'd have hired a prostitute decades ago. But I don't have
> your morality either.
I don't see it as "morality". You're imputing something to it that I
don't. I associated sex as something for marriage, because that's what
my parents said it was. It had nothing to do with right or wrong,
really, just the way they saw things. Not that the way they did things
was the only way to do so (they had friends who clearly didn't follow
that path).
(Understand, for me "right and wrong" were entirely about "did you hurt
people". There was no religious context, and because of the way I didn't
fit in society, no real societal one except in really broad terms)
>
>> Given your description, I guess you're probably at least as old as I
>> am, so "That Period" would be well before "now". My impression is that
>> the issue is less of an issue today.
>
> Nope. My post earlier today identified my birth year as 1967; many
> web pages identify yours as earlier.
Okay, you are a bit younger than me. But still, we both grew up within
5 years of each other.
>
> Still no idea which period you're referring to, but I guess I know
> which moral ideas then current you meant.
>
> I imagine there are still kids who intend to save themselves for
> marriage, just as there still seem to be kids doing hookups. I doubt
> any of this changes all that fast without external influences.
>
>>>>> This isn't much like Stephen Russ's story. Mine included college;
>>>>> his ?didn't.
>>>
>>> This now seems pretty clear. It's also reasonably clear that Holly
>>> Owen's could include college, unless she's too busy as Holy Aura.
>>
>> Yes, there's no reason she couldn't eventually go to college. Assuming
>> she ages. That would kinda suck, if it turns out the magic locks you
>> into being a teenage girl for all time. That would make it a challenge
>> to try to go forward with your life.
>
> One thing I'm wondering about is whether the magic actually cares
> about maidenhood. More generally, as they get older, do they weaken
> because the dissonance between their real life and power is less? Do
> they have to find a way to recruit new magical girls as they graduate?
> (Which is sooner for Devika Weatherill and Cordelia Ingemar than for
> the other three.)
That's obviously something to explore in the other books. The ORIGINAL
spell certainly does; that's why, as Silvertail describes, all of them
ARE teenage girls.
Do they have to remain that way with the Cycle broken? A very
interesting question. Which opens the way to several possible answers,
ranging from "yes, and thus the spell KEEPS them that way", which sucks
in one way, to "Yes, and that means that their powers will weaken as
time goes on" to "No, but things will change as they get older".
>
>>> But as things are, you've created a can of worms for yourself, which
>>> you seem to think doesn't exist.
>
>> Oh. That's something that exists, but I don't have to WORRY about it.
>> Until I write the next book.
>
> Fair enough.
Said book partly set up by "On-Site for the Apocalypse"; Dana Kisaragi
will be a major player in the second volume.
Though I will probably not get to that one until I do another
Arenaverse novel.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.dreamwidth.org
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<Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-05 23:57 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor xubist@gmail.com - 2018-10-05 23:53 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2018-10-06 09:42 -0500
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-10-06 09:38 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-06 12:28 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-10-06 13:43 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-06 11:46 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor xubist@gmail.com - 2018-10-07 06:09 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor -dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-07 08:34 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-07 22:13 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor -dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-08 10:02 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2018-10-08 11:28 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-08 18:31 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-08 14:23 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor -dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-08 19:40 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-09 16:33 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor -dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-09 13:55 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-09 18:56 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-09 08:47 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-10 19:19 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-10 19:42 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-11 00:13 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-11 06:55 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 04:25 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-12 08:23 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-12 08:59 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 20:17 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-12 19:20 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-13 02:50 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-13 05:46 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-13 14:55 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-10-13 09:29 -0500
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-13 15:21 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-13 11:41 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 21:50 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-14 18:29 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-14 23:24 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-14 20:01 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-10-15 02:05 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-15 09:18 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 16:45 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-10-17 22:54 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-15 19:32 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-10-16 07:13 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> - 2018-10-16 14:13 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 23:53 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 21:31 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-10-16 22:43 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-10-17 05:03 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor frank.scrooby@gmail.com - 2018-10-16 23:44 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-17 06:54 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor peterwezeman@hotmail.com - 2018-10-13 13:21 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-13 21:48 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-10-13 16:01 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 21:42 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-12 18:16 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-12 23:48 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-12 20:00 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-13 00:36 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-12 22:04 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 00:21 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-15 19:31 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor -dsr- <dsr-usenet@randomstring.org> - 2018-10-18 12:48 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-19 04:33 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-19 16:29 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-19 18:12 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Magewolf <Magewolf@nc.rr.com> - 2018-10-20 09:45 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-26 02:30 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-26 12:35 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-10-28 19:30 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-10-28 23:03 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-30 08:18 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-10-31 01:12 -0600
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-31 02:33 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-31 10:53 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-31 14:27 -0500
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-10-31 13:54 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-10-31 14:41 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-11-01 14:40 +1300
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2018-11-01 14:34 +1300
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> - 2018-10-31 16:12 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-31 20:11 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-11-01 11:55 -0500
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-11-01 16:12 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-11-01 17:43 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-11-01 19:35 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-11-02 16:47 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-11-01 10:18 -0700
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-11-01 19:35 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-10 19:47 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-10-11 14:57 +0000
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-11 18:15 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-15 19:17 -0500
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-10-16 20:27 -0400
Re: <Princess Holy Aura> by Ryk Spoor Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-10-16 20:12 -0500
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