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Re: We don't know what we don't know

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On 8/6/2018 12:43 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> <alal65536@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 8:56:08 PM UTC+5:30, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> <alal65536@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 7:29:30 PM UTC+5:30, Sergio wrote:
>>>>> On 8/6/2018 6:44 AM, alal65536@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> My quest for truth is to understand myself and the world better.
>>>>>> Scientists search for simple laws that describe the natural world.
>>>>>> With classical physics, scientist felt they had discovered almost
>>>>>> everything and the process was ending.  Then came relativity and
>>>>>> quantum mechanics.  The end is but the beginning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The famous quote about unknown unknowns is from Donald Rumsfeld, a US
>>>>>> Congressman.  But does it also apply to physics?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mathematics hates contradictions.
>>>>>
>>>>> no so, they are very useful.
>>>>>
>>>>>> And physics can be said to be empirical with theory of applied
>>>>>> mathematics.  But even in physics there is contradiction.  Wave
>>>>>> particle duality is considered by some to be a contradiction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to arxiv.org, in "Types of paradoxes in physics", 'axioms of
>>>>>> a formal system allow for the possibility of contradiction'.  And
>>>>>> physics is somewhat a formal system.
>>>>>
>>>>> not sure what you mean by "formal system", as physics is disparate
>>>>> collection.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We will never discover everything, I suspect.  But we can continue to
>>>>>> have a better understanding of ourselves and the world.  Understanding
>>>>>> ourselves is just as important as understanding the rest of the world.
>>>>>> Biology is just as important as physics.  But what are the limits to our understanding?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I only read that one paper on arxiv.org, but I need to understand more
>>>>>> about how much a thing (human, in this case) can understand itself, and
>>>>>> how biased our physics is because it was discovered/created by humans.
>>>>>
>>>>> physics is not biased.
>>>>
>>>> Is the human mind, connected to the human senses like vision and hearing,
>>>> specific to humans and other earth species.  Might aliens in other world
>>>> have different kind of minds and sense organs, perceiving the world
>>>> differently.  So is our physics biased based on our specific type of mind and body?
>>>>
>>>> Abhinav Lal
>>>
>>> I think you should first of all be clear that most of the work that is done
>>> in physics today does not involve sensory data collection. Most
>>> experimental observation now involves the design of instruments and
>>> detectors that are sensitive to phenomena wholly outside our sensory
>>> domain, and the output of those instruments and detectors is almost
>>> entirely processed and analyzed using digital algorithms on computers.
>>
>> I am somewhat aware of this.  If aliens have different kind of senses,
>> instead of detecting photons with their eyes, they might detect some
>> other particles with whatever sense organs they have, then they will
>> create instruments to detect those particles, which may not be known to us.
> 
> Let’s be clear. We already know how to detect particles we cannot see with
> our eyes. What we choose to try to detect with detectors does not stem from
> what we can see with our eyes.

Odd, the Borg can see all kinds of radiation humans cannot! That is a 
given!

>> Also, different natural phenomenon might occur in their environment,
>> leading them to discover/create new physics to explain it.  They might
>> discover new kind of forces or particles.
>>
>> I think that alien physics won't be exactly the same as our physics.
>>
>> What if the physical constants are different where they are in the universe.
> 
> Thus we can test with astronomical observations. Again note, not with our
> eyes.
> 
> 
>> Or if there is a multiverse, might they not have a different kind of
>> physics in a different universe.
> 
> Fine but we would never be able to know or deduce.
> 
>>
>> Abhinav Lal
>> Writer & Investor
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me close this discussion with some quotes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The more I know, the less I know"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> the huge # of problems are not solvable with math, anything over 5
>>>>> dimensions or 5 degrees of freedom typically.
>>>>>
>>>>> a complex move by a hand on a robot, must be taught to it, as the
>>>>> optimum path is not solvable by math.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Abhinav Lal
>>>>>> Writer & Investor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I am a contradiction,
>>>>>> There is no logical solution"
>>>>>
>>>>> too general.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 

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We don't know what we don't know alal65536@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 04:44 -0700
  Re: We don't know what we don't know Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 12:11 +0000
    Re: We don't know what we don't know alal65536@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 05:55 -0700
    Re: We don't know what we don't know alal65536@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 07:34 -0700
      Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 10:21 -0500
        Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:21 -0400
      Re: We don't know what we don't know Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 15:21 +0000
        Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:05 -0400
      The uncaused cause. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-08-12 17:11 -0700
    Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:03 -0400
    Re: We don't know what we don't know john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 07:17 -0700
      Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 11:22 -0400
  Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 08:59 -0500
    Re: We don't know what we don't know alal65536@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 07:42 -0700
      Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 10:20 -0500
      Re: We don't know what we don't know Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 15:26 +0000
        Re: We don't know what we don't know alal65536@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 09:29 -0700
          Re: We don't know what we don't know Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 16:43 +0000
            Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:23 -0400
          Re: We don't know what we don't know "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-06 14:45 -0700
            Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 16:57 -0500
              Re: We don't know what we don't know "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-08 23:39 -0700
          Re: We don't know what we don't know Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:10 -0700
        Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:08 -0400
        Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 15:07 -0500
          Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:27 -0400
            Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 16:35 -0500
    Re: We don't know what we don't know poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-13 15:59 -0700
  Re: We don't know what we don't know Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 16:59 -0700
  We're ten times more retarded than we can imagine. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-08-12 16:53 -0700
    Re: We're ten times more retarded than we can imagine. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-12 22:59 -0500
      Re: We're ten times more retarded than we can imagine. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 11:42 -0400
    Re: We're ten times more retarded than we can imagine. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-08-13 13:42 -0700

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