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Re: We don't know what we don't know

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<alal65536@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 8:56:08 PM UTC+5:30, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> <alal65536@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Monday, August 6, 2018 at 7:29:30 PM UTC+5:30, Sergio wrote:
>>>> On 8/6/2018 6:44 AM, alal65536@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> My quest for truth is to understand myself and the world better. 
>>>>> Scientists search for simple laws that describe the natural world. 
>>>>> With classical physics, scientist felt they had discovered almost
>>>>> everything and the process was ending.  Then came relativity and
>>>>> quantum mechanics.  The end is but the beginning.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The famous quote about unknown unknowns is from Donald Rumsfeld, a US
>>>>> Congressman.  But does it also apply to physics?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Mathematics hates contradictions.  
>>>> 
>>>> no so, they are very useful.
>>>> 
>>>>> And physics can be said to be empirical with theory of applied
>>>>> mathematics.  But even in physics there is contradiction.  Wave
>>>>> particle duality is considered by some to be a contradiction.
>>>>> 
>>>>> According to arxiv.org, in "Types of paradoxes in physics", 'axioms of
>>>>> a formal system allow for the possibility of contradiction'.  And
>>>>> physics is somewhat a formal system.
>>>> 
>>>> not sure what you mean by "formal system", as physics is disparate
>>>> collection.
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> We will never discover everything, I suspect.  But we can continue to
>>>>> have a better understanding of ourselves and the world.  Understanding
>>>>> ourselves is just as important as understanding the rest of the world. 
>>>>> Biology is just as important as physics.  But what are the limits to our understanding?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I only read that one paper on arxiv.org, but I need to understand more
>>>>> about how much a thing (human, in this case) can understand itself, and
>>>>> how biased our physics is because it was discovered/created by humans.
>>>> 
>>>> physics is not biased.
>>> 
>>> Is the human mind, connected to the human senses like vision and hearing,
>>> specific to humans and other earth species.  Might aliens in other world
>>> have different kind of minds and sense organs, perceiving the world
>>> differently.  So is our physics biased based on our specific type of mind and body?
>>> 
>>> Abhinav Lal 
>> 
>> I think you should first of all be clear that most of the work that is done
>> in physics today does not involve sensory data collection. Most
>> experimental observation now involves the design of instruments and
>> detectors that are sensitive to phenomena wholly outside our sensory
>> domain, and the output of those instruments and detectors is almost
>> entirely processed and analyzed using digital algorithms on computers. 
> 
> I am somewhat aware of this.  If aliens have different kind of senses,
> instead of detecting photons with their eyes, they might detect some
> other particles with whatever sense organs they have, then they will
> create instruments to detect those particles, which may not be known to us.  

Let’s be clear. We already know how to detect particles we cannot see with
our eyes. What we choose to try to detect with detectors does not stem from
what we can see with our eyes. 

> Also, different natural phenomenon might occur in their environment,
> leading them to discover/create new physics to explain it.  They might
> discover new kind of forces or particles.
> 
> I think that alien physics won't be exactly the same as our physics.
> 
> What if the physical constants are different where they are in the universe.  

Thus we can test with astronomical observations. Again note, not with our
eyes. 


> Or if there is a multiverse, might they not have a different kind of
> physics in a different universe.

Fine but we would never be able to know or deduce. 

> 
> Abhinav Lal 
> Writer & Investor 
> 
> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Let me close this discussion with some quotes.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "The more I know, the less I know"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> the huge # of problems are not solvable with math, anything over 5
>>>> dimensions or 5 degrees of freedom typically.
>>>> 
>>>> a complex move by a hand on a robot, must be taught to it, as the
>>>> optimum path is not solvable by math.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Abhinav Lal 
>>>>> Writer & Investor
>>>>> 
>>>>> "I am a contradiction,
>>>>> There is no logical solution"
>>>> 
>>>> too general.
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables
> 
> 



-- 
Odd Bodkin — Maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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We don't know what we don't know alal65536@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 04:44 -0700
  Re: We don't know what we don't know Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 12:11 +0000
    Re: We don't know what we don't know alal65536@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 05:55 -0700
    Re: We don't know what we don't know alal65536@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 07:34 -0700
      Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 10:21 -0500
        Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:21 -0400
      Re: We don't know what we don't know Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 15:21 +0000
        Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:05 -0400
      The uncaused cause. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-08-12 17:11 -0700
    Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:03 -0400
    Re: We don't know what we don't know john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 07:17 -0700
      Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-08 11:22 -0400
  Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 08:59 -0500
    Re: We don't know what we don't know alal65536@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 07:42 -0700
      Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 10:20 -0500
      Re: We don't know what we don't know Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 15:26 +0000
        Re: We don't know what we don't know alal65536@gmail.com - 2018-08-06 09:29 -0700
          Re: We don't know what we don't know Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 16:43 +0000
            Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:23 -0400
          Re: We don't know what we don't know "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-06 14:45 -0700
            Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 16:57 -0500
              Re: We don't know what we don't know "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-08-08 23:39 -0700
          Re: We don't know what we don't know Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:10 -0700
        Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 14:08 -0400
        Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 15:07 -0500
          Re: We don't know what we don't know benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 17:27 -0400
            Re: We don't know what we don't know Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-06 16:35 -0500
    Re: We don't know what we don't know poraty149@gmail.com - 2018-08-13 15:59 -0700
  Re: We don't know what we don't know Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-08-06 16:59 -0700
  We're ten times more retarded than we can imagine. Jeff-Relf.Me  @. - 2018-08-12 16:53 -0700
    Re: We're ten times more retarded than we can imagine. Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-08-12 22:59 -0500
      Re: We're ten times more retarded than we can imagine. benj <benj.fake@gmail.com> - 2018-08-13 11:42 -0400
    Re: We're ten times more retarded than we can imagine. Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2018-08-13 13:42 -0700

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