Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist

From	vallor <vallor@cultnix.org>
Newsgroups	alt.checkmate, sci.physics, talk.politics.guns
Subject	Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist
Date	2018-06-19 03:43 +0000
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<pg9u4b$38k$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(1 earlier) <7%PVC.358925$bS4.240675@fx01.iad> <pg8jmu$12k7$2@gioia.aioe.org> <MPG.35919ca46902c63e993ed4@news.altopia.com> <pg939g$4mq$3@dont-email.me> <MPG.359203ba8a1efec993ee0@news.altopia.com>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 19:01:05 -0700, Checkmate wrote:

> Warning! Always wear ANSI approved safety goggles when reading posts by
> Checkmate!  In article <pg939g$4mq$3@dont-email.me>, nad318b404
> @gmail.invalid says...
> 
> 
> 
>> Time to trigger the right-wing snowflakes again. Melt, snowflakes,
>> melt! On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 11:41:13 -0700, Checkmate wrote:
>> 
>> > Warning! Always wear ANSI approved safety goggles when reading posts
>> > by Checkmate!  In article <pg8jmu$12k7$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
>> > kkensington01 @gmail.nospam.invalid says...
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> Subject: Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change
>> >> Optimist From: kensi <kkensington01@gmail.nospam.invalid>
>> >> Newsgroups: sci.physics, talk.politics.guns, alt.checkmate
>> >> 
>> >> On 6/18/2018 11:14 AM, benj wrote:
>> >> > The following is also unquestionably true: Civilization runs
>> >> > today,
>> >> > post-industrial revolution, on energy. To attempt to cut off that
>> >> > energy supply for some pie in the sky reasons will destroy current
>> >> > civilization with the most dire of consequences for humanity.
>> >> > 
>> >> > The ONLY long-term solution is the invention of some new viable
>> >> > energy source.
>> >> 
>> >> If you'd bothered to actually *read* the article you are foaming
>> >> about,
>> >> you'd know that it *has* been invented. It's called wind and solar
>> >> power with storage, ko0ky.
>> > 
>> > What the author appeared to be saying, although it was a little
>> > tedious wading through all the catch phrases and buzzwords that some
>> > people have gravitated towards using in place of simple English, is
>> > that simple economic market pressures and rewards are starting to fix
>> > the problems...
>> > NOT by bullshit "carbon taxes" and other means of social engineering
>> > (force and duress), but simply allowing the natural economic
>> > motivators like the opportunity to profit by developing such systems
>> > be the driving force.
>> 
>> No; and take this from someone who also read the article kensi linked
>> to. Specific public investments were used in the more successful
>> countries to get green energy technologies to commercial viability,
>> from basic research to subsidies in the green tech sector and other
>> market interventions. Countries with a largely unfettered free market
>> are behind the curve compared to ones whose governments had specific
>> policies to promote and accelerate the green transition.
>> 
>> There is no way to spin that article as favoring a libertarian laissez-
>> faire conservative minimal-government approach. It just indicates that
>> green public investment in research and development has proved superior
>> to cap-and-trade in achieving emissions reductions.
> 
> A kick start from the Government always helps, but either way, as the
> technology becomes more viable and profitable, the effect spreads.  It
> would be nice if our Government provided carrot incentives instead of
> stick incentives.  I didn't see much evidence of O'Bummer taking that
> approach.

Something else you may want to consider (regarding the "stick") is that 
use of legacy fossil fuels tend to socialize the costs of dealing with 
their pollution.  If those costs were figured in to the price of these 
legacy fuels, then the economic pressures you are referring to would be 
that much more "fair".

As an extreme example of the socialized costs of pollution, consider the 
aftermath of this gold mine:

   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4nZDSLdIiM

-- 
-v

Thread

How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist kensi <kkensington01@gmail.nospam.invalid> - 2018-06-18 09:31 -0400
  Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-18 11:14 -0400
    Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist kensi <kkensington01@gmail.nospam.invalid> - 2018-06-18 11:39 -0400
      Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-18 12:22 -0400
        Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Nadegda <nad318b404@gmail.invalid> - 2018-06-18 18:28 +0000
          Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-18 19:09 -0400
            Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Nadegda <nad318b404@gmail.invalid> - 2018-06-18 23:31 +0000
              Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-18 19:59 -0400
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Nadegda <nad318b404@gmail.invalid> - 2018-06-19 02:33 +0000
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Checkmate <ricksabian1@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 23:49 -0700
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) - 2018-06-20 19:42 +0100
              Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Checkmate <ricksabian1@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 19:08 -0700
          Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-18 19:51 -0400
      Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Checkmate <ricksabian1@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 11:41 -0700
        Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2018-06-18 15:27 -0400
          Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Skeeter DoW #420 <fnvw@invalid.invalid> - 2018-06-18 13:37 -0600
            Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2018-06-18 15:56 -0400
              Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Skeeter DoW #420 <fnvw@invalid.invalid> - 2018-06-18 14:01 -0600
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2018-06-18 17:21 -0400
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Skeeter DoW #420 <fnvw@invalid.invalid> - 2018-06-18 15:27 -0600
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2018-06-18 17:42 -0400
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Skeeter DoW #420 <fnvw@invalid.invalid> - 2018-06-18 16:05 -0600
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Nadegda <nad318b404@gmail.invalid> - 2018-06-18 23:13 +0000
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Skeeter DoW #420 <fnvw@invalid.invalid> - 2018-06-18 17:44 -0600
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Nadegda <nad318b404@gmail.invalid> - 2018-06-19 02:34 +0000
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Skeeter DoW #420 <fnvw@invalid.invalid> - 2018-06-18 21:34 -0600
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Checkmate <ricksabian1@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 23:50 -0700
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist mixed nuts <melopsitticus@undulatus.budgie> - 2018-06-18 21:12 -0400
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist % <persent@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 18:16 -0700
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Skeeter DoW #420 <fnvw@invalid.invalid> - 2018-06-18 19:23 -0600
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Checkmate <ricksabian1@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 19:04 -0700
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Janithor <Janithor@comcast.net> - 2018-06-18 18:50 -0700
          Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Janithor <Janithor@comcast.net> - 2018-06-18 15:56 -0700
            Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist % <persent@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 17:01 -0700
        Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Nadegda <nad318b404@gmail.invalid> - 2018-06-18 20:05 +0000
          Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Checkmate <ricksabian1@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 19:01 -0700
            Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Nadegda <nad318b404@gmail.invalid> - 2018-06-19 02:35 +0000
              Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Skeeter DoW #420 <fnvw@invalid.invalid> - 2018-06-18 21:32 -0600
                Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Checkmate <ricksabian1@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 23:44 -0700
            Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2018-06-19 03:43 +0000
        Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Corwin Esterness <woolcross@gmail.com> - 2018-06-18 14:35 -0700
  Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist "Scout" <me4guns@removethis.this2.spam.centurylink.net> - 2018-06-19 22:37 -0400
    Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist kensi <kkensington01@gmail.nospam.invalid> - 2018-06-20 12:48 -0400
      Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-20 13:39 -0400
      Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-20 16:34 -0400
      Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist "Scout" <me4guns@removethis.this2.spam.centurylink.net> - 2018-06-22 23:10 -0400
        Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist Nadegda <nad318b404@gmail.invalid> - 2018-06-23 03:34 +0000
          Re: How Changing My Economic Model Made Me a Climate Change Optimist benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-06-23 08:34 -0400

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