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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #491153

Re: The Shape of the Universe.

From "hanson" <hanson@quick.net>
Newsgroups rec.arts.sf.written, sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity, alt.astronomy
Subject Re: The Shape of the Universe.
Date 2018-04-27 07:46 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <pbvd6a$odj$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (4 earlier) <BPOdnQuTzJtDPH3HnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <pbqoof$n88$1@dont-email.me> <pbs738$aeu$1@dont-email.me> <pbsqm7$fta$1@dont-email.me> <pbvbdq$84o$3@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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"Daniel60" <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
> hanson wrote on 27/04/18 01:18:
>> "Daniel60" <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>>  > hanson wrote on 26/04/18 06:33:
>>>> "Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> "Daniel60" <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> And, of course, the Universe is expanding ... in all directions 
>>>>>>> three dimensions!!
>>>> "Klaus Meinhard" <k_meinhard@gmx.de> wrote
>>>>>> ahem - 4?
>>>>>
>>>> "Tom Roberts" wrote:
>>>>> No. At least not in the usual modeling of the world as a 4-d 
>>>>> Lorentzian manifold. In such a model, we analysts are outside the 
>>>>> model [#], and we can (necessarily) examine the model at any time or 
>>>>> place (where those words refer to time and place in the model, not 
>>>>> our analysts' world). So over analysts' time the model is fixed 
>>>>> (i.e. not 'expanding').
>>>>>
>>>>> [#] Even if we are modeling the universe we inhabit. We humans
>>>>> cannot possibly be part of the model, but we are part of the
>>>>> universe.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the origin of the MISLEADING and PUNFUL claim "nothing moves 
>>>>> in spacetime". That phrase conflates time in the model to time to us 
>>>>> analysts. Yes, as analysts' time advances the model does not change 
>>>>> (or 'move'). But for objects in the universe being modeled, motion 
>>>>> certainly is possible.
>>>>>
>>>>> Back to the original issue: to us in the universe, space is 
>>>>> expanding over time. But it makes no sense to claim "time is 
>>>>> expanding", so our universe is expanding in 3 dimensions, not 4.
>>>>>
>> hanson wrote:
>>>> So, if "space is expanding" what is space expanding into?
>>>> Has anybody ever observed, measured and recorded the
>>>> "thing" that our 3D space is embedding in?
>>>> Modeling nature is just palavering about observations.
>>>> Modeling is not physics. Modeling is Philosophy!
>>>>
>> Daniel wrote:
>>> When you blow up a balloon, does the inside of the balloon know what 
>>> it is expanding into??
>>> -- Daniel
>>>
>> hanson wrote:
>> Modeling is not physics. Modeling is Philosophy!
>> With that in mind, Daniel, ask your balloon, and
>> philosophize, whether the inside of your balloon knows what YOU are 
>> doing.... LOL!
>>>
>> You may get the perfect answer from SwineBert
>> Glazier who talks to the bucket that he shits into
>> and has profound conversions with, like you
>> just did with the balloon you are blowing into.
>> <snicker>...<chortle>...ahahahAHAHA...ROTFLMAO
>> 
Daniel wrote:
> Sorry, Hanson, you might know balloonese, but I do not.
> 
hanson wrote:
Daniel, enjoy your philosophizing. Carry on. .... LOL

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Thread

The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-17 23:36 -0700
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-18 00:12 -0700
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 00:42 -0700
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-18 22:26 +1000
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 17:02 -0700
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-18 17:33 +1000
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 10:27 -0700
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-19 12:19 +1000
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-19 23:51 -0700
          Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-21 22:02 +1000
            Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-21 09:25 -0700
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-22 16:23 +1000
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 13:48 -0700
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SoloomonW@citi.com.au> - 2018-04-23 10:35 +1000
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 21:13 -0700
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 23:23 -0700
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 23:31 -0700
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-23 20:04 +1000
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 10:18 -0700
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-18 13:33 -0400
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-19 23:53 -0700
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. casagiannoni@optonline.net - 2018-04-20 07:38 -0400
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-20 10:07 -0700
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-23 10:31 -0500
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-23 22:50 -0700
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-24 20:48 +1000
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-24 08:49 -0700
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-24 08:50 -0700
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-24 23:21 -0500
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-25 20:25 +1000
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. Klaus Meinhard <k_meinhard@gmx.de> - 2018-04-25 08:53 +0200
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-25 20:28 +1000
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-25 10:42 -0500
          Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-25 13:33 -0700
            Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-25 22:53 -0500
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-26 00:00 -0700
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-04-29 03:06 +0200
            Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-26 19:44 +1000
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-26 08:18 -0700
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-28 00:16 +1000
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-27 07:46 -0700
            Re: The Shape of the Universe. Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2018-04-28 12:33 -0500
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-28 14:34 -0400
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-28 22:33 -0500
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-29 03:17 -0400
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-04-29 09:21 -0400
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-29 07:26 -0700
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-28 11:44 -0700
          Re: The Shape of the Universe. Klaus Meinhard <k_meinhard@gmx.de> - 2018-04-27 09:47 +0200
            Re: The Shape of the Universe. Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2018-04-27 21:39 +0200
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-25 15:33 -0700

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