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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #491102
| From | Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | rec.arts.sf.written, sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity, alt.astronomy |
| Subject | Re: The Shape of the Universe. |
| Date | 2018-04-26 19:44 +1000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <pbs738$aeu$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <FrmdnXfc5LiqYUDHnZ2dnUU7_8zNnZ2d@giganews.com> <pbn23h$moh$1@dont-email.me> <pbp8l0$d51$2@dont-email.me> <BPOdnQuTzJtDPH3HnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <pbqoof$n88$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 4 groups.
hanson wrote on 26/04/18 06:33: > "Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > "Daniel60" <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote: >>>> And, of course, the Universe is expanding ... in all directions >>>> three dimensions!! > "Klaus Meinhard" <k_meinhard@gmx.de> wrote >>> ahem - 4? >> > "Tom Roberts" wrote: >> No. At least not in the usual modeling of the world as a 4-d >> Lorentzian manifold. In such a model, we analysts are outside the >> model [#], and we can (necessarily) examine the model at any time or >> place (where those words refer to time and place in the model, not our >> analysts' world). So over analysts' time the model is fixed (i.e. not >> 'expanding'). >> >> [#] Even if we are modeling the universe we inhabit. We humans >> cannot possibly be part of the model, but we are part of the >> universe. >> >> This is the origin of the MISLEADING and PUNFUL claim "nothing moves >> in spacetime". That phrase conflates time in the model to time to us >> analysts. Yes, as analysts' time advances the model does not change >> (or 'move'). But for objects in the universe being modeled, motion >> certainly is possible. >> >> Back to the original issue: to us in the universe, space is expanding >> over time. But it makes no sense to claim "time is expanding", so our >> universe is expanding in 3 dimensions, not 4. >> > So, if "space is expanding" what is space expanding into? > Has anybody ever observed, measured and recorded the > "thing" that our 3D space is embedding in? > Modeling nature is just palavering about observations. > Modeling is not physics. Modeling is Philosophy! > When you blow up a balloon, does the inside of the balloon know what it is expanding into?? -- Daniel
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The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-17 23:36 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-18 00:12 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 00:42 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-18 22:26 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 17:02 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-18 17:33 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 10:27 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-19 12:19 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-19 23:51 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-21 22:02 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-21 09:25 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-22 16:23 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 13:48 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SoloomonW@citi.com.au> - 2018-04-23 10:35 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 21:13 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 23:23 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 23:31 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-23 20:04 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 10:18 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-18 13:33 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-19 23:53 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. casagiannoni@optonline.net - 2018-04-20 07:38 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-20 10:07 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-23 10:31 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-23 22:50 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-24 20:48 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-24 08:49 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-24 08:50 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-24 23:21 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-25 20:25 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Klaus Meinhard <k_meinhard@gmx.de> - 2018-04-25 08:53 +0200
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-25 20:28 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-25 10:42 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-25 13:33 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-25 22:53 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-26 00:00 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-04-29 03:06 +0200
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-26 19:44 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-26 08:18 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-28 00:16 +1000
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-27 07:46 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2018-04-28 12:33 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-28 14:34 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-28 22:33 -0500
Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-29 03:17 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-04-29 09:21 -0400
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-29 07:26 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-28 11:44 -0700
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Klaus Meinhard <k_meinhard@gmx.de> - 2018-04-27 09:47 +0200
Re: The Shape of the Universe. Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2018-04-27 21:39 +0200
Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-25 15:33 -0700
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