Re: The Shape of the Universe.

From	"hanson" <hanson@quick.net>
Newsgroups	rec.arts.sf.written, sci.physics, sci.physics.relativity, alt.astronomy
Subject	Re: The Shape of the Universe.
Date	2018-04-26 08:18 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<pbsqm7$fta$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <pbn23h$moh$1@dont-email.me> <pbp8l0$d51$2@dont-email.me> <BPOdnQuTzJtDPH3HnZ2dnUU7_83NnZ2d@giganews.com> <pbqoof$n88$1@dont-email.me> <pbs738$aeu$1@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 4 groups.

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"Daniel60" <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
 > hanson wrote on 26/04/18 06:33:
>> "Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> "Daniel60" <daniel47@eternal-september.org> wrote:
>>>>> And, of course, the Universe is expanding ... in all directions  
>>>>> three dimensions!!
>> "Klaus Meinhard" <k_meinhard@gmx.de> wrote
>>>> ahem - 4?
>>>
>> "Tom Roberts" wrote:
>>> No. At least not in the usual modeling of the world as a 4-d 
>>> Lorentzian manifold. In such a model, we analysts are outside the 
>>> model [#], and we can (necessarily) examine the model at any time or 
>>> place (where those words refer to time and place in the model, not our 
>>> analysts' world). So over analysts' time the model is fixed (i.e. not 
>>> 'expanding').
>>>
>>> [#] Even if we are modeling the universe we inhabit. We humans
>>> cannot possibly be part of the model, but we are part of the
>>> universe.
>>>
>>> This is the origin of the MISLEADING and PUNFUL claim "nothing moves 
>>> in spacetime". That phrase conflates time in the model to time to us 
>>> analysts. Yes, as analysts' time advances the model does not change 
>>> (or 'move'). But for objects in the universe being modeled, motion 
>>> certainly is possible.
>>>
>>> Back to the original issue: to us in the universe, space is expanding 
>>> over time. But it makes no sense to claim "time is expanding", so our 
>>> universe is expanding in 3 dimensions, not 4.
>>>
hanson wrote:
>> So, if "space is expanding" what is space expanding into?
>> Has anybody ever observed, measured and recorded the
>> "thing" that our 3D space is embedding in?
>> Modeling nature is just palavering about observations.
>> Modeling is not physics. Modeling is Philosophy!
>> 
Daniel wrote:
> When you blow up a balloon, does the inside 
> of the balloon know what it is expanding into??
> -- Daniel
>
hanson wrote
Modeling is not physics. Modeling is Philosophy!
With that in mind, Daniel, ask your balloon, and
philosophize, whether the inside of your balloon 
knows what YOU are doing.... LOL!
>
You may get the perfect answer from SwineBert
Glazier who talks to the bucket that he shits into
and has profound conversions with, like you
 just did with the balloon you are blowing into.
<snicker>...<chortle>...ahahahAHAHA...ROTFLMAO

Thread

The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-17 23:36 -0700
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-18 00:12 -0700
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 00:42 -0700
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-18 22:26 +1000
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 17:02 -0700
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-18 17:33 +1000
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 10:27 -0700
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-19 12:19 +1000
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-19 23:51 -0700
          Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-21 22:02 +1000
            Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-21 09:25 -0700
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-22 16:23 +1000
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 13:48 -0700
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SoloomonW@citi.com.au> - 2018-04-23 10:35 +1000
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 21:13 -0700
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 23:23 -0700
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-22 23:31 -0700
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. SolomonW <SolomonW@citi.com> - 2018-04-23 20:04 +1000
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 10:18 -0700
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-18 13:33 -0400
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-19 23:53 -0700
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. casagiannoni@optonline.net - 2018-04-20 07:38 -0400
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-20 10:07 -0700
  Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-23 10:31 -0500
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-23 22:50 -0700
    Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-24 20:48 +1000
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-24 08:49 -0700
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-24 08:50 -0700
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-24 23:21 -0500
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-25 20:25 +1000
      Re: The Shape of the Universe. Klaus Meinhard <k_meinhard@gmx.de> - 2018-04-25 08:53 +0200
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-25 20:28 +1000
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-25 10:42 -0500
          Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-25 13:33 -0700
            Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-25 22:53 -0500
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-26 00:00 -0700
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-04-29 03:06 +0200
            Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-26 19:44 +1000
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-26 08:18 -0700
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. Daniel60 <daniel47@eternal-september.org> - 2018-04-28 00:16 +1000
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-27 07:46 -0700
            Re: The Shape of the Universe. Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2018-04-28 12:33 -0500
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-28 14:34 -0400
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-04-28 22:33 -0500
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. benj <benj@nobody.net> - 2018-04-29 03:17 -0400
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seawasp@sgeinc.invalid.com> - 2018-04-29 09:21 -0400
                Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-29 07:26 -0700
              Re: The Shape of the Universe. "hanson" <hanson@quick.net> - 2018-04-28 11:44 -0700
          Re: The Shape of the Universe. Klaus Meinhard <k_meinhard@gmx.de> - 2018-04-27 09:47 +0200
            Re: The Shape of the Universe. Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2018-04-27 21:39 +0200
        Re: The Shape of the Universe. "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-25 15:33 -0700

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