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Groups > sci.military.naval > #259922
| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.military.naval, sci.physics |
| Subject | Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft |
| Date | 2018-04-26 22:25 -0700 |
| Organization | n/a |
| Message-ID | <pbuc8g$b2n$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (4 earlier) <pbo8cs$6tk$1@dont-email.me> <pbq6eb$1gnp$2@gioia.aioe.org> <ahg1ed1u7m5ritd5oqh09t5cpo97u8kdcq@4ax.com> <pbqvgq$2fb$1@dont-email.me> <0ai2ed5vv7p7poiu5sd8l7fpbct434oiep@4ax.com> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 4/25/2018 9:29 PM, Fred J. McCall wrote: > "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> wrote > on Wed, 25 Apr 2018 15:29:45 -0700: > >> On 4/25/2018 11:05 AM, Fred J. McCall wrote: >>> Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> wrote on Wed, 25 Apr 2018 10:21:50 -0500: >>> >>>> On 4/24/2018 4:42 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>>>> On 4/24/2018 1:50 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>>>>> On 4/23/2018 11:17 PM, Juergen Nieveler wrote: >>>>>>> On 24.04.2018 07:17, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>>>>>>> Will taking off in an F16 soon be equal to taking off in an F22 wrt >>>>>>>> the fact that they can both be seen!? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I doubt it will happen "soon"... but it's a stern reminder that >>>>>>> stealth technology is just a bet against the ingeniousness of physics >>>>>>> grad students in the next 5 decades... >>>>>> >>>>>> That has to be interesting to any pilot. They might find themselves up >>>>>> against a shi% load of active SAM sites. Ahh, well, the SAMS that are >>>>>> left after the initial barrages of HARM's and JSOW's are fired off by >>>>>> coalition aircraft. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-88_HARM >>>>>> >>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-154_Joint_Standoff_Weapon >>>>>> >>>>>> The HARMS should target the SAMS, and the JSOW's should make the SAMS >>>>>> fire off at projected phantom targets. >>>>> >>>>> Love it: >>>>> >>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-154_Joint_Standoff_Weapon#/media/File:AGM-154_03.jpg >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ;^) >>>>> >>> >>> I'll just note that HARMs can't target SAMs. They can only target the >>> radars. >> >> Argh! Sorry about that. You are correct. Well, if a SAM's radars are >> severely damaged and/or outright destroyed, well, it is kind of rendered >> into a highly degraded and somewhat worthless state, in a sense? >> > > Yep, but if you leave the missiles intact they can just drive in > another radar. DOH! Correct again. >>> Hence the use of JSOW on the missile emplacements. Indeed. Can JSOW launch a couple of MALD's? >> Iirc, JSOW can project phantom radar signatures of coalition aircraft >> and cause the SAM to fire at them. Then, finally, the JSOW can choose >> where to perform its "final mission", to destroy a target. >> > > Nope. I think you're thinking of MALD, which looks rather like JSOW > but is much smaller and has a motor. You are absolutely correct on this one. For some reason I thought that JSOW can project as well. Well, think of multiple MALD being released from a cruise-type Phoenix like missile launched from a stand off aircraft. A single Phoenix can potentially launch multiple MALD after they "get into a certain range". Heck, perhaps even a JSOW can launch some MALD's in and of itself. Fractal layers of defense, in a sense? >>>>>> JSOW saturation can deplete a SAM of missiles and might force it to be >>>>>> reloaded. HARM saturation should destroy its radar systems. >> >> Ahh. I knew I wrote about HARM's destroying radars. Sorry for any >> confusion, and thanks for your correction on my previous statement. >> > > The idea behind HARM is that it's so fast you don't need to do > saturation attacks, hence the 'H' in the name. Well, imvvho, the more the merrier, high-speed or not. Imvvho, we should mass produce these types of countermeasures, and never stop improving their capabilities. >>>>>> However, perhaps "in the future", the damn enemy has an experimental >>>>>> weapon that is "theoretically" immune to HARM and JSOW, and can easily >>>>>> see and target F-22's. It can also tell the difference between F-16, >>>>>> F-15, F-22 and F-35 in real time and act accordingly... Oh SHI%! The >>>>>> coalition must be trying to prevent the enemy from engaging within >>>>>> this line of experimentation. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> At least the F-22 is also a superb plane on top of being stealthy, so >>>>>>> it could still fight on even terms with other fighters with the >>>>>>> stealth advantage removed. >>>>>> >>>>>> Agreed. At least it has that handy Vulcan Cannon for a knife fight. >>>> >>>> yep => short range, inaccurate >>>> >>> >>> USAF F-35 also carries a built-in cannon. It just doesn't carry very >>> many rounds for it. >>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Imvvho, the pilots of an F-22 should not totally rely on hyper >>>>>> advanced missile attack scenarios. I know they can fire on targets >>>>>> from a long range via Phoenix, or medium range using AMRAAM. However, >>>>>> even the newest versions of those missiles can fail to hit their >>>>>> targets... >>>>>> >>>> >>>> aircraft have very good countermeasures, IR, microwave, decoys, flares >>>> >>> >>> Phoenix is dead. The last airplane that could fire it was the F-14 >>> Tomcat. USAF never owned any even when it was around, so it certainly >>> was never a provision for F-22. >>> >> >> Does the F-22 carry long range missiles, or just medium range? >> > > AIM-120 is as good as it gets for pretty much everybody these days. Nice, kind of agreed. I would still like to be able to fire off multiple very long range cruise missiles, kind of like Phoenix used as a supplement of any all out assault. Perhaps Phoenix can be used to deploy an little "army" of micro drones? F-14 was kind of assigned to a stand off fleet defense role anyway, right? Also, what about applying that to the radar system of an enemy SAM? Can it use a "swarm of drones" as an aspect of its overall radar system? So, HARM might be not be quite as useful as it once was? > Phoenix required an AWG-9 radar. The only aircraft to ever have that > were the USN version of the F-111 (F-111B) which was never produced > and the F-14 Tomcat. That's not as bad as it might seem, though, > since the AIM-120D can reach out almost 100 miles and the cruise > missile carrying bomber air defense role for the Navy is much less > required than it used to be. For some reason, I would still launch some F-14's and put them on standoff defensive orbits loaded with state-of-the-art AIM-54 and AIM-120's >>>>>>> The F-35 is a different topic... >>>>>> >>>>>> Afaict, F-22's most likely can eat up F-35's for breakfast, lunch and >>>>>> possibly dinner? Can the F-35 carry the newest Sidewinders? Does it >>>>>> require an external pylon? If so, there goes stealth. Damn. >>>>>> >>>> >>>> sidewinders need external pylon as they have to lock onto target before >>>> launch >>>> >>> >>> Not on an F-22 they don't. On an F-22 they launch from internal bays. >>> >> >> You are right. Thanks again Fred. :^) >> > > I was in the missile business until a few years ago and do still keep > some track of what's going on, so I'm not horribly out of date yet. Thank you for taking the time to set me on the right path. Corrections = learning! Very nice conversing with you Fred. :^)
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Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft George <george.core@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-23 13:38 +0000
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Dhu on Gate <campbell@neotext.ca> - 2018-04-23 15:45 +0000
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-23 22:17 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Juergen Nieveler <juergen@nieveler.org> - 2018-04-24 08:17 +0200
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-24 13:50 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-24 14:42 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-04-25 10:21 -0500
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 11:05 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-04-25 14:06 -0500
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 13:34 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft jonathan <WriteInstead@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 19:02 -0400
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 22:55 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2018-04-27 18:56 +0100
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2018-04-27 18:37 +0100
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-25 15:29 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-04-25 21:29 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-04-26 00:42 -0500
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-26 22:25 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 02:58 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-01 13:52 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-05-01 17:26 -0500
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 17:57 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-05-01 19:43 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-05-02 07:33 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Juergen Nieveler <juergen@nieveler.org> - 2018-04-27 09:17 +0200
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Fred J. McCall <fjmccall@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 03:03 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Airyx <eweinkam@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 05:22 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Peter Stickney <p_stickney@verizon.net> - 2018-04-27 16:46 -0400
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Juergen Nieveler <juergen@nieveler.org> - 2018-04-27 14:27 +0200
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Airyx <eweinkam@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 06:47 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-04-27 11:27 -0500
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft Peter Stickney <p_stickney@verizon.net> - 2018-04-27 16:50 -0400
Long Range US Missiles in the 21st. Century WAS Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "David E. Powell" <david_powell3006@msn.com> - 2018-04-25 21:20 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-04-24 14:52 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "dott.Piergiorgio" <chiedetemelo@ask.me> - 2018-04-29 10:16 +0200
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft abelard <abelard3@abelard.org> - 2018-04-24 11:56 +0200
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-06-23 21:50 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft "Chris M. Thomasson" <invalid_chris_thomasson@invalid.invalid> - 2018-07-03 23:05 -0700
Re: Quantum radar will expose stealth aircraft abelard <abelard3@abelard.org> - 2018-07-04 11:55 +0200
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