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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #490474
| From | wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | rec.arts.sf.written |
| Subject | Re: Undeservedly famous |
| Date | 2018-04-16 19:31 +0000 |
| Organization | none |
| Message-ID | <pb2tm7$1k9u$1@grapevine.csail.mit.edu> (permalink) |
| References | <44fc81e3-45d7-47ae-970e-a5d9fbe8f4b0@googlegroups.com> <ofudnf_w2c9SyE_HnZ2dnUU7-W3NnZ2d@giganews.com> <5ad49be1.366210984@localhost> |
In article <5ad49be1.366210984@localhost>,
Bice <eichler2@comcastsucks.net> wrote:
>At this point I can confidently say that Heinlein falls into the
>"quite famous, everyone likes him, but I just don't get the appeal"
>camp. There were a couple that I thought were OK but for the most
>part I just didn't care for them and didn't think they were all that
>well written. Why did this guy won five Hugos?
I'm going to sound like Captain Obvious here, but the point bears
making: because he wrote the sort of stuff that Worldcon members in
the 1950s and 1960s liked. Not to put too fine a point on it, but
Heinlein was nearly a generation older than many of his
contemporaries; they quite literally *grew up reading him*. When
Heinlein stopped writing short fiction around 1950 to concentrate on
his novels, he was only 43. (Heinlein was ten years older than Clarke
and twelve-and-a-half years older than Asimov.)
Look for a moment at the *other* authors on the novel ballot for the
years in which a Heinlein novel was nominated:
1956: EF Russell (b. 1905), Asimov (1920), Kornbluth (1923), Brackett (1915)
1959: Blish (winner, 1921), Anderson (1926), Budrys (1931), Sheckley (1928)
1960: Dickson (1923), Leinster (1896), Mark Phillips (= LM Janifer, 1933,
and RP Garrett, 1927), Vonnegut (1922)
1962: Daniel F. Galouye (1920), Harrison (1925), Simak (1904), James
White (1928)
1964: Simak (winner), Norton (1912), Herbert (1920), Vonnegut
1966: Herbert (co-winner), Zelazny (co-winner, 1937), Brunner (1934),
Doc Smith (1890)
1967: Delany (1942), Garrett, Keyes (1927), Schmitz (1911), TB Swann (1928)
1974: Clarke (winner, 1917), Niven (1938), Anderson, Gerrold (1944)
1983: Asimov (winner), Cherryh (1942), Clarke, Donald Kingsbury (1929),
Wolfe (1931)
1985: Gibson (winner, 1948), DR Palmer (1941), V Vinge (1944), Niven
Heinlein was on the ballot three times after his last win, and the
first two of those lost to another "Big Three" author. You can see
the generational turnover right in the list: Delany, 35 years younger,
was first on the ballot in the same year that Heinlein last won.[1]
The Nebulas don't have a long history in the relevant period, but it's
worth comparing who was short-listed alongside Heinlein:
1967: Delany, Keyes (co-winners)
1974: Clarke (winner), Pynchon, Gerrold, Anderson
1983: Michael Bishop (winner), Asimov, Aldiss, Wolfe, PKD
1985: Gibson (winner), Lewis Shiner, Niven, Jack Dann, KSR
-GAWollman
[1] Someone with a database could make the obvious table showing who
were the oldest and youngest people on the ballot for each year's
major genre awards. For all I know, maybe ISFDB has already done
this.
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
wollman@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
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Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-21 09:39 -0600
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Re: Undeservedly famous Wolffan <akwolffan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 20:10 -0400
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Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 21:15 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 19:15 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 05:38 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-04-18 22:41 +0100
Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-16 15:23 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-04-16 15:36 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 16:27 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 23:40 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 13:10 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 22:00 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 15:36 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-17 17:20 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 06:39 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 21:31 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-18 02:41 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 06:41 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-19 16:14 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 17:33 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-04-19 12:28 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 13:05 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-19 20:19 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-18 05:16 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2018-04-19 12:52 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 13:06 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-20 02:33 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-18 00:07 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Ninapenda Jibini <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 06:49 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-18 15:31 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 16:13 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 23:38 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-16 19:07 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-04-17 13:15 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 13:19 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-04-18 22:49 +0100
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 16:13 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-18 23:48 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 10:20 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-17 14:22 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-17 20:32 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-16 22:21 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 08:24 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 19:04 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 21:39 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-18 05:23 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 23:02 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-19 04:30 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-19 05:16 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-19 10:18 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-21 01:21 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-21 15:41 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-23 15:56 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-23 21:24 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-04-26 02:25 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-26 13:10 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-27 05:25 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2018-04-27 09:29 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2018-04-30 03:28 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "nuny@bid.nes" <alien8752@gmail.com> - 2018-05-04 20:55 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 02:02 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 10:27 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 11:46 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 12:58 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2018-04-19 20:07 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-19 21:01 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> - 2018-04-22 13:57 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:50 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-19 21:48 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-20 04:12 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-20 06:43 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 13:12 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 17:19 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-15 22:16 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Wolffan <akwolffan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 20:12 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 01:03 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 20:53 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-15 21:07 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Wolffan <akwolffan@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 17:17 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 15:32 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 15:29 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous wollman@bimajority.org (Garrett Wollman) - 2018-04-16 19:34 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-16 21:57 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-15 15:04 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 13:47 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-04-15 05:37 -0600
Re: Undeservedly famous "artyw2@yahoo.com" <artyw2@yahoo.com> - 2018-04-15 09:13 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 08:33 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-17 16:06 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-17 10:35 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 19:10 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-17 13:24 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Richard Hershberger <rrhersh@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 13:46 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-05-01 00:44 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous "Default User" <defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> - 2018-05-01 16:00 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 21:42 -0400
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-17 23:20 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-18 08:19 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-04-17 19:06 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-04-27 18:02 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous Joe Bernstein <Kdeurama@gmail.com> - 2018-04-30 04:37 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-30 03:54 -0500
Re: Undeservedly famous ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-04-30 16:30 +0000
Re: Undeservedly famous Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-04-30 10:07 -0700
Re: Undeservedly famous The Zygon <stafford.martin@gmail.com> - 2018-05-05 18:03 -0700
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