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Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google

From "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google
Date 2013-11-28 20:24 -0500
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <op.w7ad69jl5zc71u@localhost> (permalink)
References <op.w69dxd1t5zc71u@localhost> <1f417310-eee5-4c00-a34f-2efd28661a86@googlegroups.com> <99CdnV3zyb0X_grPnZ2dnUVZ_sadnZ2d@supernews.com>

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On Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:38:50 -0500, Andrew Haley  
<andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> wrote:
> Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> In fairness to Obama, the *political* challeges involved in putting
>> [Obamacare] together are probably unfathomable!
>
> All you need to know about the American healthcare system in one
> easy-to-understand graph:
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/22/american-health-care-terrible_n_4324967.html
>

The HuffingtonPost article complains about costs per person being too
large in the US per person as compared to their lifetime.  According
to the article, those costs are the reason the US is an outlier.  You
understand that ObamaCare is *raising* costs per person, yes?  We're
going to be so far to the right we won't fit on the page!  LOL.  Did
you _intend_ to cite that article Andrew?

See?  Costs go up:
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/obamacare-tax-increases-will-impact-us-all

See?  Costs go up:
http://taxfoundation.org/blog/obamacare-increases-premiums-much-305-percent

Don't like that group?  Here's another one.  See?  Costs go up:
http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/10/enrollment-in-obamacare-exchanges-how-will-your-health-insurance-fare

Another:
http://www.manhattan-institute.org/knowyourrates/


1) USA is not the only outlier, see Russia...

2) Despite the non-correlation with life expectancy, we have better
quality of health care.  If you live in the EU, would you go to
Bulgaria, Croatia, Macedonia and Latvia for health care? If you
live in the US, would you go to Canada or Mexico for health care?

3) We also have many expensive selective health care options, like
plastic surgery and dental.  Both of those are likely to distort.
With government healthcare, it'll be the cheapest solution.  So,
we would've likely returned to the norm on that chart, if ObamaCare
wasn't jacking prices up through the roof.

3) All non-US countries are in USD PPP (Purchasing Power Parity).
Is USA in USD or USD PPP?  I can't tell from the article.  It's
probably in USD, not USD PPP...  If so, that would introduce such
a distortion.  I.e., did the authors assume the two are equal?

4) We have a large class of freeloaders who drive up costs.
Hospitals can't refuse care in the US like they can in other
countries (Canada, Japan).  Their care is primarily via the
emergency room instead of via scheduled doctor visits.  Those
higher costs of emergency room care are paid for by all of us.
ObamaCare rolls these freeloaders into the system and provides
all of them even more healthcare at our expense.

5) Some countries have higher rates of death which reduces total
costs of healthcare.  The EU has death rates twice as high as
the USA.  South Africa has very high rates of death.  Germany
is actually exporting elderly to other countries to lower their
healthcare costs.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/26/german-elderly-foreign-care-homes

6) ObamaCare will cost me 4 times as much without a Federal subsidy
and 2 times as much with.  How exactly is that fixing the problem of
healthcare costs being too high? ...


Rod Pemberton

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OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-11-28 07:21 -0500
  Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-28 04:45 -0800
  Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-28 05:00 -0800
    Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 06:50 -0800
    Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-11-28 09:38 -0600
      Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-11-28 07:53 -1000
        Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-11-29 09:06 -0500
          Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-11-29 08:13 -0600
      Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-11-28 20:24 -0500
        Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-11-28 18:47 -1000
          Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-11-29 09:54 -0500
          Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-12-11 12:40 -0500
            Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-11 08:23 -1000
              Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Spam@ControlQ.com - 2013-12-11 13:38 -0500
              Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-11 18:42 +0000
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-12 02:38 -0800
        Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-11-29 03:34 -0600
          Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-11-29 08:49 -0500
            Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-11-29 08:34 -0600
              Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-11-30 18:03 +0000
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-11-30 18:06 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-01 03:09 +0000
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-11-30 22:32 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Elizabeth D Rather <erather@forth.com> - 2013-11-30 21:26 -1000
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-01 08:53 +0000
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-01 17:16 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-01 17:13 -0800
              Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-11-30 17:50 -0500
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-01 03:32 -0600
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-12-01 05:34 -0500
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Alex McDonald" <blog@rivadpm.com> - 2013-12-01 21:36 +0000
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Doug Hoffman <glidedog@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 05:23 -0500
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-12-02 20:58 +0100
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 19:24 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2013-12-03 09:23 +0000
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 02:09 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 19:02 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 19:04 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-02 00:42 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-02 03:13 -0600
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 19:26 -0800
        Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google AKK <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-12-02 12:10 +0100
          Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2013-12-02 05:35 -0600
            Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google AKK <akk@nospam.org> - 2013-12-02 13:40 +0100
              Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-02 06:22 -0800
          Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-12-02 20:34 +0100
            Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-02 19:28 -0800
            Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-03 02:10 -0800
              Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-12-03 14:26 +0100
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-03 06:58 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2013-12-03 17:31 +0100
          Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 02:34 -0800
            Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-03 03:44 -0800
              Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google gavino_himself <visploveslisp@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 11:51 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2013-12-03 14:09 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 21:30 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Ilya Tarasov <ilya74.tarasov@gmail.com> - 2013-12-05 04:07 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <notagoodone@invalid.org.invalid> - 2013-12-11 17:05 +0000
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-12 02:40 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-03 12:39 -1000
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 21:32 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-04 02:07 -0800
                Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-04 21:35 -0800
        Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Stanley Daniel de Liver" <notagoodone@invalid.org.invalid> - 2013-12-11 16:59 +0000
          Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-12 02:43 -0800
      Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-11-30 18:04 -0800
    Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Rod Pemberton" <dont_use_email@xnohavenotit.cnm> - 2013-11-28 20:29 -0500
      Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 22:01 -0800
  Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-28 05:06 -0800
    Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 06:51 -0800
  Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-11-28 05:11 -0800
  Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-11-28 06:47 -0800
  Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google mhx@iae.nl - 2013-11-28 10:50 -0800
    Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-28 15:36 -0800
      Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-11-30 18:08 -0800
    Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Roelf Toxopeus <rt4all@notthis.hetnet.nl> - 2013-11-29 09:33 +0100
      Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2013-12-01 16:56 -1000
  Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google Mark Wills <markrobertwills@yahoo.co.uk> - 2013-12-05 05:25 -0800
    Re: OT: ObamaCare vs. Google the_gavino_himself <visphatesjava@gmail.com> - 2013-12-07 22:04 -0800

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