Re: Embedded platforms for beginners?

From	Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid>
Newsgroups	comp.arch.embedded
Subject	Re: Embedded platforms for beginners?
Date	2017-09-05 10:02 -0700
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<oomlbt$49i$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(10 earlier) <2i5rB.35182$OC1.2645@fx06.iad> <87o9qrm3xw.fsf@nightsong.com> <CV5rB.34451$WI2.28011@fx38.iad> <oom4gs$57r$1@dont-email.me> <b0jtqctem62cf5ue86k91n6pii7she0atb@4ax.com>

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On 09/05/2017 09:35 AM, George Neuner wrote:
> Unfortunately, the pro-GC bias is one that is firmly rooted in
> reality.
> 
> In this forum we get a distorted view because the general skill level
> of embedded developers is relatively high.
> 
> In the broader programming world, the average skill level is just
> slightly above "script kiddy".  The headlong march to "managed"
> languages such as Java, C#, Python, etc. is industry acknowledging
> that the average programmer simply can't write a complex program
> without hand-holding.
> 

I used to write a lot of assembly.  Then I wrote a lot of C.  These days 
I write a lot of Python.  And you know what?  I get more done faster 
with fewer bugs.

Just the same as going from ASM to C, there are things that the machine 
is just better at doing than you are.  Here and there, yeah, I can sit 
there and hand-tweak better ASM than the C compiler will give me.  But 
for an entire project of any scope?  Better to let the optimizing 
compiler do 90% of the job over 100% of the project than for me to do 
100% of the job over only 20% of the project.

GC is the same thing.  Think how complicated the simple function "Create 
a new string from the concatenation of two existing strings." becomes 
when you start having worry about malloc/free.  Either:
   A) the function has to accept a pre-allocated buffer, in which case 
you've moved all the complexity of adding strlens and not getting off by 
one out of the function, making the function pointless, or
   B) the function does its own malloc, which you've now hidden under 
the hood while still forcing the caller to remember to free it at some 
point.

With GC if you need the new string, you magically create it on the heap, 
and then you walk away, comfortable in the knowledge that it'll get 
taken care of.

> And it isn't just memory management ... the runtimes of these
> languages also - in whole or in part - manage files, network
> connections, threads, synchronize object access, etc.
> 
Having tools to make the routine parts of the job easier so that you can 
concentrate on the larger problem is a good thing.

> C isn't even being taught in a lot of schools now, so even those who
> have a (relatively) recent CS/IS degree may have no experience of
> programming that requires manual resource management.
> 
> 
> All in all, general software development is a sorry state of affairs
> that is getting worse with every passing year.  I have stated in the
> past my belief that the majority of software "developers" would be
> doing the world a favor by finding another occupation.
> 
> YMMV,
> George
> 

-- 
Rob Gaddi, Highland Technology -- www.highlandtechnology.com
Email address domain is currently out of order.  See above to fix.

Thread

Embedded platforms for beginners? Elof Huang <elof.huang@runbox.com> - 2017-09-01 14:07 +0800
  Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Jack <jack4747@gmail.com> - 2017-08-31 23:22 -0700
  Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-09-01 04:10 -0400
  Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-01 21:49 +1000
    Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Elof Huang <elof.huang@runbox.com> - 2017-09-02 11:57 +0800
      Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-02 18:25 +1000
        Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Elof Huang <elof.huang@runbox.com> - 2017-09-03 15:37 +0800
          Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-03 17:54 +1000
          Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-09-03 13:49 -0400
    Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-02 11:41 -0400
      Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-03 09:44 +1000
        Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-02 20:39 -0400
          Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-03 11:16 +1000
        Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-09-02 18:21 -0700
          Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-03 14:26 +1000
            Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-09-03 02:14 -0400
              Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-03 17:52 +1000
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-09-03 13:50 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-09-03 22:20 -0700
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-09-05 22:06 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-06 12:21 +1000
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-09-05 22:42 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-06 14:26 +1000
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-09-06 01:20 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-09-03 15:58 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-04 08:00 +1000
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-03 19:13 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-04 09:58 +1000
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-03 20:16 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-04 15:13 +1000
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-09-03 22:24 -0700
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-04 15:55 +1000
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-05 14:15 +0200
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? George Neuner <gneuner2@comcast.net> - 2017-09-05 12:35 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Rob Gaddi <rgaddi@highlandtechnology.invalid> - 2017-09-05 10:02 -0700
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-09-05 18:13 +0100
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-06 10:24 +0200
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-09-05 17:10 -0700
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-06 09:57 +0200
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-09-05 16:57 -0700
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-09-05 16:54 -0700
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-06 12:31 +1000
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-09-05 19:42 -0700
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-05 10:16 +0200
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-05 16:56 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-09-04 10:46 +0100
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-05 17:09 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-09-05 19:35 -0700
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-06 12:40 +1000
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-06 00:42 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-09-06 08:55 +0100
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-09-06 08:45 +0100
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-07 20:23 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-09-08 08:42 +0100
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-08 12:07 +0200
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-09-08 11:40 +0100
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-09-08 13:24 +0200
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-09-08 13:36 +0100
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-09 13:16 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-09-10 08:53 -0500
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> - 2017-09-10 20:18 +0300
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-11 21:24 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-09-15 22:22 -0500
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-18 11:26 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-09-18 18:26 +0100
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-09-19 14:27 -0400
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Tom Gardner <spamjunk@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2017-09-18 18:24 +0100
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-09-03 22:30 -0700
                Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-09-04 15:51 +1000
            Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-09-03 22:04 -0700
      Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? kristoff <kristoff@skypro.be> - 2017-09-05 17:56 +0200
        Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Luke A. Guest <laguest@archeia.com> - 2017-09-10 17:10 +0100
  Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? tarjei99@gmail.com - 2017-09-10 05:49 -0700
    Re: Embedded platforms for beginners? Les Cargill <lcargill99@comcast.com> - 2017-09-10 09:03 -0500

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