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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #26947
| From | Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.arch.embedded |
| Subject | Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? |
| Date | 2017-06-25 13:53 -0700 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <oip7l7$m0f$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <852f0ce1-5a23-481e-bdd6-0c0a0dbba577@googlegroups.com> <oioshv$cuv$1@dont-email.me> <600a866a-3243-4f28-94b0-ef09b141cc1c@googlegroups.com> <oip5ab$cae$1@dont-email.me> <1fed3a11-ede9-479f-a529-67eedf8d2b5b@googlegroups.com> |
On 6/25/2017 1:18 PM, Dave Nadler wrote:
> On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 4:13:33 PM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
>> So, you're going to ship the assembled, tested device BACK
>> to the manufacturer > (of the MCU) to have release software installed?
>
> Of course not. Please read my post a bit more carefully...
I understood your post. You're missing the point that the "release
keys" are present in the devices -- all the devices -- that the
manufacturer encounters. He (or a third party "post retail"
adversary) can leisurely purchase some number of these devices
and examine them in fine detail -- possibly DESTRUCTIVELY -- to
extract *THAT* (singular) secret.
Armed with this ONE secret, he now holds the keys to your kingdom.
Every unit sitting in your warehouse along with every unit that
YOU'VE ALREADY SOLD! (Do you issue a world-wide recall of all
previous units to ensure the SECURE BOOT SECTOR is updated as
well as the "release software?) Once the horse has left the stable,
ALL of your product (maybe even product *line*, depending on
how much you've leveraged that boot code and key set) is at risk.
By contrast, I can't even tell you what the private keys for my
devices are. *They* generate them and tell me what their PUBLIC
keys are. Buy a second unit and its keys will be different.
Try to REPLACE the first unit with the second without first
"introducing it" to my system and the new unit won't work.
STEAL (reverse engineer) the keys from a unit and you've gained
*exactly* one unit -- the rest of the population remains secure.
> The use of encrypted firmware coupled with a micro preprogrammed
> with bootloader and key means the manufacturer can load firmware,
> without being able to clone the product.
>
> That is what the OP is looking for, no?
He wants to protect against reverse engineering (which can lead to
counterfeiting and/or devices being pwned). Are you *sure* the
"secure boot loader's" contents can't be inferred by operating the
device at reduced voltages? Monitoring Icc (having characterized
some number of OTS devices that you bought from the same vendor)?
Once someone figures out how to hack *one* of these devices, then
ALL are vulnerable. If every instance of that device purchased
for your application contains the same code/key image, then all
of your application devices are compromised by any successful attack
against *one*.
And, you'll never know if the order for *one* unit that you received,
today, was for a genuine user's interest *or* for a hacker who is
eager to crack your device.
Apple couldn't seem to keep their iPhone secure. MS couldn't
keep their XBOX secure, etc. And, these are people with REALLY
DEEP pockets ("Gee, why didn't they just buy these cheap MCU's
that the OP is using?!")
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Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-23 21:34 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-24 09:11 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-24 15:27 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-24 16:42 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-24 19:26 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-24 21:05 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Bill Davy" <Bill@XchelSys.co.uk> - 2017-06-25 10:37 +0100
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 02:47 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2017-06-25 13:05 +0200
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-24 21:59 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-24 23:14 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2017-06-25 07:59 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 10:43 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2017-06-25 12:43 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 13:13 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2017-06-25 13:18 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 13:53 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2017-06-25 14:05 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 14:24 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-25 16:46 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 18:19 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-25 18:57 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 19:14 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-26 09:26 +0200
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-25 19:27 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2017-06-26 08:56 +0200
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-26 12:35 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2017-06-29 16:09 +0200
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2017-06-29 10:44 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-29 20:22 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2017-06-30 13:44 +0200
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-06-29 23:35 -0400
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2017-06-30 13:33 +0200
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-30 17:11 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2017-07-03 12:05 +0200
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-07-03 10:16 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2017-07-04 13:32 +0200
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-07-04 13:40 -0400
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-07-05 14:14 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-07-05 19:51 -0400
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-07-07 17:09 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2017-07-17 18:52 +0000
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2017-07-17 21:38 +0200
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-08-12 18:04 -0700
Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-08-14 09:53 -0700
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