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Groups > comp.arch.embedded > #26943

Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore?

From Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups comp.arch.embedded
Subject Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore?
Date 2017-06-25 10:43 -0700
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <oioshv$cuv$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <03e50228-28e2-44a1-a9d5-9617c38585a0@googlegroups.com> <852f0ce1-5a23-481e-bdd6-0c0a0dbba577@googlegroups.com>

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On 6/25/2017 7:59 AM, Dave Nadler wrote:
> MCU manufacturers will typically install firmware for you.
> Given you are using a chip with a "secure" key/firmware,
> have the manufacturer install the key/firmware,
> and forward the parts for assembly.
> 
> That's a common solution...
> Won't help if the chip's "security" is weak...

At best, this limits you to a small subset of the available devices
(OP claimed he "cannot force them to use a different microcontroller
only because of security").  Any device that *appears* to be secure,
today, just hasn't seen enough attention to be hacked (or, the hack
hasn't been widely published).

But, it also means the "release software" has to include ALL of the support
software necessary to effectively test the ENTIRE device -- even the
parts that aren't (yet!) used.  You can't install "manufacturing firmware",
verify/troubleshoot the device's complete functionality and then overwrite
it with "release" software intended for retail with any assurance that
the device (of undisclosed capabilities) will be field-upgradeable to
some future set of capabilities/functionality at a later date!

	"I downloaded the 1.0.1 update from your website and it appears
	to have installed successfully.  However, the device doesn't work
	as claimed in the 1.0.1 Release Notes..."

If the device includes a complete set of diagnostics, then you have to
either document their presence, *hope* no one accidentally invokes them
*or* selectively disable them prior to shipment.

	"I don't know what I did but the device is now just sitting there
	with the power light alternating between red and green.  And, it's
	making a funny buzzing noise..."

Finally, you've now sacrificed some flexibility in how quickly you can
implement changes to the manufactured devices.  I.e., a bug discovered
in the codebase installed by the manufacturer can't be corrected in stride;
any already programmed devices have to be returned to the manufacturer for
reprogramming.  And, you have to wait for the manufacturer to deliver
replacement components that have the "fixed" firmware contained within.

Or, require the END USER to do the upgrade as soon as he unboxes the device:

	"Cripes!  I haven't even had a chance to plug the thing *in* and
	and they're already telling me it's got a bug and needs to be
	upgraded..."

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Thread

Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-23 21:34 -0700
  Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-24 09:11 -0700
    Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-24 15:27 -0700
      Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-24 16:42 -0700
        Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-24 19:26 -0700
          Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-24 21:05 -0700
      Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Bill Davy" <Bill@XchelSys.co.uk> - 2017-06-25 10:37 +0100
        Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 02:47 -0700
      Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2017-06-25 13:05 +0200
  Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-24 21:59 -0700
    Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-24 23:14 -0700
  Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2017-06-25 07:59 -0700
    Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 10:43 -0700
      Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2017-06-25 12:43 -0700
        Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 13:13 -0700
          Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2017-06-25 13:18 -0700
            Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 13:53 -0700
              Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2017-06-25 14:05 -0700
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 14:24 -0700
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-25 16:46 -0700
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 18:19 -0700
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-25 18:57 -0700
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-06-25 19:14 -0700
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2017-06-26 09:26 +0200
  Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-25 19:27 -0700
  Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Stef <stef33d@yahooI-N-V-A-L-I-D.com.invalid> - 2017-06-26 08:56 +0200
  Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-26 12:35 -0700
  Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2017-06-29 16:09 +0200
    Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Dave Nadler <drn@nadler.com> - 2017-06-29 10:44 -0700
      Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-29 20:22 -0700
        Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2017-06-30 13:44 +0200
      Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2017-06-29 23:35 -0400
      Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2017-06-30 13:33 +0200
        Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-06-30 17:11 -0700
          Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2017-07-03 12:05 +0200
            Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-07-03 10:16 -0700
              Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? "Boudewijn Dijkstra" <sp4mtr4p.boudewijn@indes.com> - 2017-07-04 13:32 +0200
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-07-04 13:40 -0400
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-07-05 14:14 -0700
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> - 2017-07-05 19:51 -0400
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-07-07 17:09 -0700
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Chris <xxx.syseng.yyy@gfsys.co.uk> - 2017-07-17 18:52 +0000
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2017-07-17 21:38 +0200
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? jhnlmn@gmail.com - 2017-08-12 18:04 -0700
                Re: Is there a process for secure firmware install/upgrade for device made offshore? Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2017-08-14 09:53 -0700

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