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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #59068

Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems?

From Alex <alex@rivadpm.com>
Newsgroups comp.lang.forth
Subject Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems?
Date 2017-05-11 10:35 +0100
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <of1b28$n5t$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References <13e6c647-fd9a-4d77-89e3-2cc977f3bd5b@googlegroups.com> <oevc0m$8cs$1@dont-email.me> <0s-dnSRQPuj2sInEnZ2dnUU7-YPNnZ2d@supernews.com>

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On 5/11/2017 10:22, Andrew Haley wrote:
> Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> wrote:
> 
>> On 5/10/2017 16:21, lehs wrote:
>>> : ?exit ( flag -- )  if 2r> 2drop then ;
>>>
>>> I'm doing a kind of filtering word and want to replace  IF EXIT THEN  with  ?EXIT if this works.
>>
>> Intel are introducing Control Flow Enforcement Technology
>> https://software.intel.com/sites/default/files/managed/4d/2a/control-flow-enforcement-technology-preview.pdf
>> that will kill return stack tricks like this. The OS folks at
>> Microsoft see this as a great way to stop at the hardware level a
>> whole significant class of stealth code.
>>
>> It may even kill CATCH and THROW on hosted systems, since the
>> "standard" way of doing THROW usually subverts the usual CALL/RET
>> pairs by returning directly to the CATCH.
> 
> There are enough shadow stack management instructions to cope with
> this, I think.  Otherwise, Intel's proposal is dead in the water
> anyway.
> 
> Andrew.
> 

It's been criticized for not really doing what it sets out to do.

<quote>
Finally, as already discovered by past implementors ([P10] [P11] [P12] 
[P13]), shadow stacks cannot be used through compiler modifications 
only. Each OS has their own exceptional cases that need special 
handling. On Linux and similar OSes, these exceptional cases include the 
setjmp/longjmp/makecontext/setcontext set of functions which can violate 
the assumption that a function will return to its call site. It also 
includes the default glibc behavior of lazy binding (done for 
performance reasons) as well as C++ exceptions and asynchronous signal 
handling.

from https://forums.grsecurity.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=4490
</quote>

The lazy binding piece is interesting; that's the same technique I use 
in WF32 for DLL calls, and I've played with it for late object/message 
binding in Win32forth previously. I can't quite work out how the CET 
shadow stack management instructions proposed would enable what appears 
to be a common technique.

-- 
Alex

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Thread

Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 08:21 -0700
  Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-10 16:39 +0100
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 08:46 -0700
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 16:04 +0000
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 04:22 -0500
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-11 10:35 +0100
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 05:08 -0500
          Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 03:51 -0700
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-11 07:02 -0500
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 11:55 -0400
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 09:32 -0500
          Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 11:56 -0500
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 12:20 -0500
              Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-15 12:31 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 15:50 -0500
  Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-10 16:49 +0000
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 12:04 -0700
  Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 01:08 -0700
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-11 09:13 +0100
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-11 01:48 -0700
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-11 09:59 +0100
  Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-12 14:20 +0000
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 17:01 -0700
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-12 22:18 -0700
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 03:09 -0700
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-13 21:07 +1000
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-13 14:20 +0000
          Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-14 11:59 +1000
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-14 09:21 -0500
              Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 10:43 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-14 18:35 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-15 07:11 +0200
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 04:35 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 03:54 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? mhx@iae.nl - 2017-05-15 04:07 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 06:23 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 06:53 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 09:18 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 22:44 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-15 04:16 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 02:00 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 02:43 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-16 05:08 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-16 12:11 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? NN <november.nihal@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 05:24 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-17 07:35 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 14:59 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-17 13:30 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-15 11:09 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 21:17 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-15 07:13 +0200
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-16 10:24 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 01:13 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-16 12:26 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 01:58 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-17 16:45 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? obi65537@gmail.com - 2017-05-25 12:04 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-26 10:02 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-26 07:46 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-26 13:53 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-26 10:14 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-26 10:16 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 08:59 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-26 11:27 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 10:19 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Lars Brinkhoff <lars.spam@nocrew.org> - 2017-05-26 20:20 +0200
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 21:38 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Cecil Bayona <cbayona@cbayona.com> - 2017-05-26 14:06 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-26 22:00 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-26 17:06 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? hum9 <obi65537@gmail.com> - 2017-05-27 01:15 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-28 14:17 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-27 17:40 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-24 15:46 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <obi65537@gmail.com> - 2017-05-25 11:51 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <obi65537@gmail.com> - 2017-05-25 20:38 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? obi65537@gmail.com - 2017-05-25 22:03 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? obi65537@gmail.com - 2017-05-25 22:09 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-26 21:56 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-26 13:30 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-27 15:04 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-27 17:33 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-29 12:17 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? hum9 <obi65537@gmail.com> - 2017-05-27 00:33 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-27 14:53 +1000
                READ-FILE over-specified? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-27 21:28 +1000
                Re: READ-FILE over-specified? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-27 13:11 +0000
                Re: READ-FILE over-specified? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-29 13:47 +1000
                Re: READ-FILE over-specified? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-28 09:44 +0200
                Re: READ-FILE over-specified? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-28 13:41 +0000
                Re: READ-FILE over-specified? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-28 19:59 +0200
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 09:42 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 09:53 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-16 04:53 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? albert@cherry.spenarnc.xs4all.nl (Albert van der Horst) - 2017-05-16 12:32 +0200
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 12:35 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-16 10:48 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 18:23 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-17 04:33 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-17 12:29 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-16 10:28 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-16 10:43 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-16 16:34 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-16 12:41 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-17 16:14 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 03:05 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-18 16:33 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 12:43 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 04:01 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-18 15:41 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Andrew Haley <andrew29@littlepinkcloud.invalid> - 2017-05-18 11:58 -0500
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-18 22:57 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "HAA" <someone@microsoft.com> - 2017-05-17 00:32 +1000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Alex <alex@rivadpm.com> - 2017-05-16 15:53 +0100
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-15 05:29 +0000
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? humptydumpty <ouatubi@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 23:00 -0700
                Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 12:27 -0400
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 09:16 +0000
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 09:55 +0000
        Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-13 14:25 +0000
          Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Julian Fondren <julian.fondren@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 07:49 -0700
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 09:59 +0000
            Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-15 12:22 +0000
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Rudy Velthuis" <newsgroups@rvelthuis.de> - 2017-05-13 14:19 +0000
  Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-14 23:23 -0700
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 00:10 -0700
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-15 09:35 +0000
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? lehs <skydda.barnen@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 00:54 -0700
      Return-address manipulation (was: Would ?EXIT ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-15 08:47 +0000
        Re: Return-address manipulation (was: Would ?EXIT ...) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-15 11:53 +0000
          Re: Return-address manipulation (was: Would ?EXIT ...) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2017-05-16 13:03 +0000
            Re: Return-address manipulation (was: Would ?EXIT ...) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 07:06 -0700
              Re: Return-address manipulation (was: Would ?EXIT ...) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 07:14 -0700
    Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2017-05-14 21:58 -1000
      Re: Would ?EXIT work in all ANS-Forth systems? stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2017-05-15 11:23 +0000

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